A good midfielder is not judged from his ability to pass ball forward alone but that's just one of the attributes of a good midfielder. Other equally important requirements are: to always try to be in the right position to charge and win balls. A midfielder should not spend time running up and down without closing down and winning balls. A good cm once he is with the ball he is suposed to focus on two or more altenatives and to always try to choose the best one, Carrick sees only one and that's where he passes and ends up lossing balls to opponents, he did that against Bayen Munich and again against Man City in the FA cup both incidences resulted into goals. His poor positioning failed him to stop Roben agains Bayen. In that match alone he game Bayen two scoring opportunities. Whether a player passes the ball forward, sideways or backward what is importatant is to pass timely and effectively. I don't remember the day when Carrick passed the ball which facilitated a goal , may be a couple of years ago. Before Clevererly was introduced in the first team, I was a big supporter of Carrick. But since introduction of Cleverely I have noted a very big difference. For example we have seen in a couple of game Jones the defender moving with the ball past a forest of players from box to box can Carrick do that from the midfield ? NO. Carrick is no longer effective in the midfield. I saw him at Leeds as CB he did very well may be he should try to replace Rio.

el diablo:

The problem is that there are huge numbers of idiots on this board who slate Carrick but can't explain why they dislike him or dislike his role in the team.

And there are also a fair few idiots who see it as their role to jump to his defence and who would claim that everyone who slates Carrick does so "because he doesn't pass the ball forward" or "because he doesn't do 100 step overs a match and score 30 yard belters". Neither of which are reasons why most people criticise him. 

He gets criticism because a) he doesn't put himself about or impose himself in most big games. b) his positional sense is usually poor and this was especially evident in matches against the likes of Bayern or City in the FA cup. c) he is very prone to making very costly mistakes. d) he takes a hell of a long time to spot and make a pass, which invites pressure on whoever receives the ball from him. e) his control is very ponderous and his reaction times are poor. f) when he does make a mistake he never bursts a gut trying to get back to rectify it.

Anyone who actually bothers to go to Old Trafford on here would know that the majority of match-going United fans would not put Carrick in United's best eleven, and most agree that in the last 3 years he's been incredibly inconsistent and he's become one of our weakest links.

el diablo:

What Carrick has shown is that he can sit in front of the defence and provide cover, at the expense of any attacking contribution. Or he can contribute to the build up play (even though his passing was excellent on Tuesday he didn't ever get himself into good positions in the final third) at the expense of providing any defensive cover. Which is why we can only really afford to play him in 4-3-3 formations.

Thats entierly based on one game. The Basel game.

We played a slightly modefied version of 4-4-2 in the Champions League last season and Carrick totally bossed the Midfield in the majourity of his games in the knock out round. So obvoiusly we can more than afford to play him in formations other than 4-3-3.

Still waiting for a reply to my previous post by the way. Cheers.

el diablo:

Swappy:

What I fail to understand is why there are 2 sides of Carrick, like in this game he moved forward with great intent (though he was not able to position himself or anticipate anything in the final third of the pitch)..... Why on earth he forgets how to retract back and cover the defense .. many a occasions I saw him standing by without any attempt to get the ball back from opposition right in front our D. And there are times when he just sits on top of defense and just looks for people to move around him so that he can make a pass.

 

Well that's the crux of it really. In a 4-4-2 system, you need two box-to-box midfielders. Fletcher is a perfect example of a box to box midfielder, when United don't have the ball he runs himself into the ground and helps protect the back four, and when United do have the ball he gets forward and tries to provide an option for whoever is in possession. He gets in positions that allow him to deliver good crosses, stretch defences and he also gets in the box to score the odd header as well.  And when he's fit he does all of this successfully in every match. Anderson is an imperfect box to box midfielder, he's excellent bringing the ball forward and his passing is usually good, but he's a little lax at times tracking back, mainly due to his fitness. Cleverley is also showing he can adequately cope with covering the defence and can carry the ball forward and get involved in the attacks.

What Carrick has shown is that he can sit in front of the defence and provide cover, at the expense of any attacking contribution. Or he can contribute to the build up play (even though his passing was excellent on Tuesday he didn't ever get himself into good positions in the final third) at the expense of providing any defensive cover. Which is why we can only really afford to play him in 4-3-3 formations.

 

Excellent point on Carrick and Anderson! Which is why we shouldn't play the both of them at the same time in a 4-4-2 formation! The 4-1 mauling by Liverpool should have been enough for SAF to know that their midfield partnership isn't working! But my problem is that when we played our 4-4-2 formation with Keane and Scholes,Keane took the responsibility to track back and tackle if he had forayed forward when either leaving Scholes behind/supporting Scholes when we were pressing! We DONT have that kind of player now! Carrick again is not comfortable in possession when pressed and that uncertainty spreads throughout the team when he's selected to play in a 4-4-2 formation! Wave after wave of Basel attacks were launched with Ferdinand and Jones(plus De Gea) the only players in our half and little/no effort from either Anderson or Carrick to track back! We need a Sandro/Ever Banega that can be relied upon to protect our back four or die in the attempt! We need someone that has the energy and presence to "WORK" for our team! Spain found that out when they finally played Marcos Senna in the centre of midfield in the Euro's(Xabi Alonso played there in the World Cup and wasn't up to task!)

el diablo:

What Carrick has shown is that he can sit in front of the defence and provide cover, at the expense of any attacking contribution.

 

He hasn't needed to the last few years has he? (The trophies and amount of goals we score and concede back this up)

 

Swappy:

What I fail to understand is why there are 2 sides of Carrick, like in this game he moved forward with great intent (though he was not able to position himself or anticipate anything in the final third of the pitch)..... Why on earth he forgets how to retract back and cover the defense .. many a occasions I saw him standing by without any attempt to get the ball back from opposition right in front our D. And there are times when he just sits on top of defense and just looks for people to move around him so that he can make a pass.

 

Well that's the crux of it really. In a 4-4-2 system, you need two box-to-box midfielders. Fletcher is a perfect example of a box to box midfielder, when United don't have the ball he runs himself into the ground and helps protect the back four, and when United do have the ball he gets forward and tries to provide an option for whoever is in possession. He gets in positions that allow him to deliver good crosses, stretch defences and he also gets in the box to score the odd header as well.  And when he's fit he does all of this successfully in every match. Anderson is an imperfect box to box midfielder, he's excellent bringing the ball forward and his passing is usually good, but he's a little lax at times tracking back, mainly due to his fitness. Cleverley is also showing he can adequately cope with covering the defence and can carry the ball forward and get involved in the attacks.

What Carrick has shown is that he can sit in front of the defence and provide cover, at the expense of any attacking contribution. Or he can contribute to the build up play (even though his passing was excellent on Tuesday he didn't ever get himself into good positions in the final third) at the expense of providing any defensive cover. Which is why we can only really afford to play him in 4-3-3 formations.

 

I need to understand what is the definition of a great game for a player, is it the number of successful touches he had on the ball or is it the contribution it made to the game.

What I fail to understand is why there are 2 sides of Carrick, like in this game he moved forward with great intent (though he was not able to position himself or anticipate anything in the final third of the pitch)..... Why on earth he forgets how to retract back and cover the defense .. many a occasions I saw him standing by without any attempt to get the ball back from opposition right in front our D. And there are times when he just sits on top of defense and just looks for people to move around him so that he can make a pass.

If it's the age catching up.... and Fergie wants to play a 4-4-2 then, Carrick's not the ideal guy, he needs players with legs around him, we need Nani/Fabio/Anderson/Young to move around him so that they can move the ball forwards instead of Carrick moving.

When defending then too Carrick is not too dogged like someone Van Bomel/De Jong/Essien/Mascherano/Schweinsteiger/Zanetti who are just not satisfied by one tackle/attempt... they would run chase until they get the ball.

I really fail to see Carrick making any contribution to the game. Need to see someone new to partner at time careless Anderson.

But the situation remains, that at that position we don't have many players:

Anderson, Fletcher, Cleverly (injured), Carrick (too old for me), Pogba (get him to play EPL)

What I found interesting is that Carrick had a fantastic game.Had a pass compltetion rate of 97 percent.Carrick had 1 dribble,2 tackles,2 interceptions,1 clearance and he had attempted 9 long balls and all of them were succesful.He had 90 touches in the game.I think he had a great game.

Carrick is a scapegoat for fans who cant come up with a good argument or good points to raise and simply don't know how to have a discussion, you will never change their minds and to be honest their isn't even any point in trying.

Bigshowmartin:

 I`m shocked that some people think SAF knows more than us fans......I have been watching man utd play for nearly as long as he has managed them, which means i know everything..............oh wait!!!

LOL epic

el diablo:

MufcFanSam:

So your entirely blaming Carrick for our poor defensive display?

Hahahaha...aahhhh....brillaint!

Your not even worth it mate, can't be bothered. Bye.

 

Where did I say that exactly?

It's not even worth you replying to posts if you can't read.

 

You specifically blamed Carrick for not "providing defensive cover" yet you failed to state how utter poor Rafa, Rio & Evra were. (I thought Jones actually had a decent game, but was at fault for the pen). So that implies your entirely blaming Carrick for our poor defensive display. As i already said in my previous post. Either way Carrick can't win with pathetic people like you. If we can't score he gets blamed, if we conceed he gets blamed. How pathetic. The fact you rely on him so much shows how important he is to the team and how arguably he's our best Midfielder.

Dave28k:

I give every player a chance, Every game, and Carrick has let me down so many time's giving the ball away, at fault for holes in the midfield, neither attacks or defends, that I just don't like the guy anymore.. I didn't like berbatov either, but even he hasn't let me down asmuch as carrick has.. I'm pretty sure most fans are in agreement that our midfield isn't and hasn't been good enough for a couple of seasons now, and I'm sure that SAF hasn't brought anyone in Because he believes Anderson and CLev will come good, I hope and (believe) he's Right, but we don't have enough cover for Injuries..

What are you on about?? You said Carrick has let you down so many times by giving the ball away. Thats utter rubbish, he is the best player in Manchester United statistically to keep possesion of the ball, he is even better then Wayne Rooney at that. So clearly you are biased. And the reason why you feel Berbatov hasnt let you down as much as Carrick is because he hardly gets selected!! And if our midfield isnt good enough, how did we manage to win the BPL and get to the Final of the CL??? To achieve such standards in the toughest league you need to have the best players in each position and clearly we have. Michael Carrick>Frank Lampard last season and surely this as well.

Michael Carrick played surprisingly well against FC Basel. Have to give him that... I enjoyed looking at the offensive players we had on display in the last 15 minutes. Nani for me, came in a bit too late... he's our main player this season so far and had he played earlier, we could've scored 2 more goals at least. Park, Young, Nani, Wellbeck, Evra and Valencia were very, very fast.

 I`m shocked that some people think SAF knows more than us fans......I have been watching man utd play for nearly as long as he has managed them, which means i know everything..............oh wait!!!

well, in the last 2 years we haven't seen carrick too much, but i think he is one of the most important players for us....if you noticed in the match against stoke or chelsea we didnt keep the ball too much and this was because of carrick's and cleverley's miss. both of them are very important and i think that carrick is so much important that cleverley when we play at OT against weaker opponents because he is the guy who slows the game and has more touches than everybody else, but in a game with high tension and more difficult i think cleverley would be better than carrick