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  • 24 Oct 2011 7:12 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    malunited:
    It is not the defeat that I cannot handle but the manner of the defeat. A lot of people have been saying this for sometime now that United have been riding their luck. We all know how unreliable Evans is. We all know that Smalling is the much better centre back. Why was Vidic not playing? Was he injured? We all know that our pathetic midfield has been playing beyond their means and capability and is going to get hammered in the EPL. We all know that without technique you cannot play against the best teams. yet for all this United have done nothing. We all know now that Gary Neville has written his autobiography how good and what the methods of Carlos Quiroz was and how he plotted and planned to beat Barcelona and did it. We know that United do not train that way anymore. So it was not exactly a shock to lose this game. What was a shock was the team selection and the tactics we employed in getting a hammering from City while the coaching staff and Fergie just looked on and made extremely strange substitutions. This is difficult to handle.
    Spot on. Think our coaches are not that good like Carlos Quiroz was. Carlos was fantastic. The tactics yesterday was abysmal. They lift the players without any tactical changes. If you look at Sir Alex record you will see that he has always a very good second man which dont have now. We need such assistance again.
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 5:50 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    MarcRed:

    bodphelps:

    handers94:
    We stay till the end, we stay till the end! we're man united, we stay till the end! ;)
     

    BUT WE DIDN'T . . .

    There were thousands of people leaving at 3 - 0 . . . . .

    They did, plenty did stay as well though.  And plenty kept singing even when the sixth went in.

    To be brutally honest, I don't expect much from United when I'm toddling off to Old Trafford, I can accept that you win some, lose some and luckily at this club we get to experience the former far more than the latter.  But the one and only thing I ask of United players is that they play for the shirt and put the effort in, and there were far too many on that pitch who didn't seem to realise what the derby meant to us.  Only Rooney, Welbeck, Smalling and De Gea deserve to be in the team come Everton next week. 

    They were the only players visibly putting the effort in, Welbeck was poor but I can still take a bad game if the effort is there.  But the likes of Evra (in particular), Rio, Young, Nani, Anderson just weren't putting it in, City wanted it more it was plain to see.

    On the flip side and rather weirdly, I actually thought we were the better team first half and City scored with pretty much their only attack.  But after a good opening to the game, it became annoyingly predictable, move it quickly from side to side so Young and Nani could get at the full back, it was blantently obvious to me stood there off the pitch, so I'm guessing City's defenders knew what was going to happen as well.   I know our main threat is down the wings and it has been more or less since Ferguson took over but it wasn't working yesterday and we'd ran out of ideas before the end of the first half.

    Then the sending off didn't change us from an attacking point of view which was ultimately the down fall.  We attacked in the same way we had first half, but there was zero defensive cover for every time City got the ball. 

    It was a weird sort of day, because with 5 minutes to go, a few were saying if we get another one here it might get interesting last few.  And then it was just a total capitulation in injury time.

    But overall, a massive feeling of humiliation, embarassment and just feel let down by a large proportion of the players.  I still stayed to sing 'we love United, we do' after final whistle though.

     

    Good points Marc, and a good post.

    Like you, I live in the real world, and do not expect to win every game; but like you, I expect effort.

    I would accept loosing to City 3-2, as long as the team put in 100% and we did our absolute best, but sorry, I cannot accept a defeat by any margin when we simply do not try.

    Like you, I stayed until the end, as we are Stretty tunnel side, and we always stay to clap the team off.
    The Stretford End clapped and sang Red Flag, and not one player could look up at us - They all left the pitch looking at the floor.

    As I said earlier this year in another thread;

    I wish I could run my business so badly and still get paid . . . .

     

    If you keep on doing what you have always done you will keep on getting what you have always got
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 2:30 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    True you are.
    redabroad1:
    ......... then do NOT revel in our glories - past and future. United do not have a god given right to win any football match - against City or anyone else. We were second best today, lost a home record going back 18months, SO WHAT? Recors are there to be broken. Fergie will re-group the players, and we WILL bounce back. May 2012 is a very long way off and anything can happen in football over 1 week, never mind 7months. So called "fans", leaving 20 minutes early, people on here calling for the head of everyone including the ball boys. Get real guys. The reason the EPL is so special is that it throws up results like this. How boring would it be to win every match we played? Football is a challenge - and the challenge for United now is to bounce back and show this result for what it was - FREAKY!!!!
    True you are
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 2:29 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    True you are.
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 2:18 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    Defeat sure is bitter to take, especially when it comes in a derby match against your local rivals. And not to mention a hammering, that is. While it's easy to get carried away by emotion as we all do for we love Man Utd, let's put things into perspective. Technically, a 1-6 defeat meant 3 points not gained and -5 to our goal difference. Now, that's not going to decide where the league title goes. We haven't lost it and Man City certainly hasn't won it yet. The implication is more to the morale of the team and fans alike. Sure, it blows away the confidence and esteem of our players and I'm sure they will turn up for training this week knowing they had just got themselves into the record book for the wrong reasons. However, there's no reason for knee-jerk reaction or slating-the-player sessions just because we lost a league match. There are much to learn from this defeat that will, hopefully, put some reality back into us. That we can't go on playing the kind of champagne football we suddenly become associated with this season. No doubt it's great that our team "plays like Barcelona" but Barcelona plays in La Liga, not the Premier League. I always think that if Barca is to compete in the English game, they will not win the league. In the match against City, I suddenly found myself thinking that we looked like Arsenal and Man City actually looked like...us. The old us at least, with more flair surely. We were passing the ball every where but didn't create any real chances for almost 30 minutes while City were using the ball very effectively and dare I say, ruthless, a word that is usually associated with Man Utd. Sure, on good days, that kind of free flowing football can end up producing sensational displays, such as the ones against Arsenal and Chelsea. But against a team that is defensively well-drilled the Italian way and full of superstars in attack, we need to be careful. And that is what we didn't do. I thought we were careless in possession at times and perhaps, Sir Alex summed it up pretty well in the match against Basel, that we may have become a bit complacent. I thought we haven't got a good game since beating Chelsea some time ago. Against Liverpool, we set ourselves up defensively as Anfield is no easy place to go to and play entertaining football. Perhaps, Sir Alex may have spotted something and decided that we can't afford to be too attacking. Against City, it's at Old Trafford and our impressive record there means we can afford to be less conservative, even if it is a derby match against a much-improved City team. The players will learn from this defeat. Jonny Evans certainly will. Before we start slating him, in fact it had already begun the moment he was red-carded, we should ask if we trust Sir Alex. His decision to put Evans ahead of Jones, Vidic and Smalling for the central defensive role probably speaks of the faith he has in him. Well, until Sir Alex loses faith in him, we shouldn't. I mean, he will learned to have let Balotelli through and let his keeper deal with him one-on-one. So what if it's 0-2. It's not like we haven't gone into this situation before, yes, but with 10 men, no. He needs to improve on his awareness as he probably wasn't aware he was the last man. In other situation where he wasn't the last guy, his fouling of Balotelli would have been hailed as a good piece of defending for it stopped the striker from going through on goal. We need to rediscover our way of playing that mixes flair with tackles and above all, ruthlessness as we had done for so many seasons. Let's not evolve into Arsenal (all out attack that produces anything but success). We just need to get the balance right and shirk off the obsession of catching up to Barca by trying to play like them. Alas, it's only 3-points dropped and to put things into further perspective, we got beaten by Arsenal and Liverpool last season but still ended up winning the league. What does it say? The title is not won or lost until May.
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 2:06 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    ...no doubt we'll still be supporting United...we should accept this humiliating loss..The question is, is it about accepting defeat..?..We escape defeat with stoke...should have lost to Norwich..liverpool was just lucky...excuses of mid week games, resting for the big match..what more do we have... the players should really look upon themselve what was missing...it seems everyone is trying to avoid being a scapegoat for making mistake..in yesterday's game, compared to the charity shield..city were still cautious..but what did we do..we became more cautious..no one took any risk of pressuring the opponents, no one challenges the ball untll its come so close to the penalty box...everyone trying to make a point with their moves..simply said it just ***..united should really reflect on what is happening...city is basically hunting every moves that united are making..are we still blind to see..as if the first goal wasn't enuf to wake them up..come the red card and then we start to wake up..ten men against the stars city have..are you joking..i believe all the fans can accept losses, but what makes it irritating is the way we have been playing..to be frank, from the win against chelsea to the last norwich game, including the champions league..most of the fans are not convince with the wins...just consoling with the 3 pts and hoping that will get better...
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 1:25 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    Whatever your opinion on leaving early or not. People pay more than they can afford to watch United and they defended in the last 10 minutes like they didn't care.

    Lost all respect for Ferdinand as a player and a person. Not that missing a *** test, refusing to sign a new contract because he wanted over £100k a week and looking *** without Vidic playing alongside him has helped endure himself to me.

    Looks like he pulled one of "legendary merk's" on his own team mates yesterday. He's meant to the organizer, De Gea looked the most upset out of all our defence yesterday

    Personally I wouldn't have left if I had been at the game, also I wouldn't have left if I'd known the final score had been 6-1... simply because I don't think I'll EVER see that again at Old Trafford

    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 12:45 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    Hi All

    Still feel disappointed at the defeat, but now that I have had some time to digest I feel like its time to move on

    Yes we suffered our first defeat at OT for 18 months and Haven't lost by that margin since 1926, But as the OP quite rightly pointed out records are meant to be broken (Remember 19th Champions). Its refreshing to see healthy competition which makes the challenge for honours exciting and interesting

    I would agree that our form has dipped since the start of the season and city have certainly gained bragging rights...for now. However, as I have said previously no titles and medals are handed out in october, there is still a long way to go to even suggest that the title race is over based on this result (Marathon not a sprint). What I think is important and what truly makes champions stand out from the rest is how they respond in the next game, they need to quickly get over this and get back to concentrating on performing.

    I am now really keen to see how the lads respond in our next challenge in the Carling Cup and against Everton away on Saturday

    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 12:37 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    Magic Mevs:
    Bouncing back against weaker opposition will not solve any problems that we encountered yesterday. The midfield will still be weak and the defence still all over the place. Felt sorry for De Gea yesterday as his defence let him down. Why oh why are we sending 7 players upfront when we are 4 goals behind with 3 mins to go. We keep trying yeah but there are times when it is impossible and this is one of them instead we lose 6-1 instead of 3-1 or 4-1. SAF or Phelan should be sending on messages to tell the players what to do as they are obviously to daft to work it out for themselves. One thing is for sure Roy Keane would not let it happen, a real lack of leadership and quality is missing in the midfield. Keane has never been replaced Carrick, Fletch, Ando don't even come close there are players out there who are far better than these 3 and we need to get 2 of them and get a starting 11 we know is our best and play them more often. Rooney needs to score more goals again dropping too deep again. City have had an easy start so still believe but 1-0's win the league.
     

    Ya! Scoring 4 or 5 goals against Everton who have not had any investment is nothing to brag about.  That was the problem all along. You cannot be happy to be beating teams that you should beat if you are challenging for the title. We should brag about beating Teams on you own level. We put 8 past an extremely weak Arsenal, struggled against Norwich about scoring 2 goals, and yet they caused us trouble in Midfield. Those matches are not supposed to be a test of kings or a who is who. The point is, our high flying start has been covering alot of weaknesses and for some reason they continue to go unaddressed. 

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/23/manchester-united-manchester-city-five-things

    look at number 3.

    I cant say I disagree and yet, it is the same story over and over again.

    In my opinion this is not about handling bitterness of defeat, but we should not be proud to be mediocre. 

    It's Squeaky Bum Time and We've got the experience now to cope
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 12:21 PM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    BumbleBee:
    I can't agree more.. I live outside UK and therefore I don't have the luxury of attending the games but i make sure i watch every single game on TV and due to the time difference I usually have to leave work to watch.. but yesterday was disastrous, I couldn't believe it .. I am still in shock and I want someone to tell me that was just a bad dream I had! I guess I never thought I had this much love for United until this day because It affected everything about me! to an extent some thought I had someone dead in my family! never the less what's right is right, this was a good lesson to the gaffer to get the quality and potential and not rely on the cheep buys with huge potential, no offence, I love Chechareto but don't expect every buy to be a new chechareto! here are my pain points: 1. Evans: he is young, inexperienced and has his whole future in front of him but he cannot cut it! I have seen him over and over making the same mistakes (to an extent he admitted he almost got sacked last season) yet the boss keeps on finding excuses for him! 2. DMF: who have we got? Carrick? I cant add to what many of you already wrote, but even with his potential, who is his replacement? no one! 3. AMF: so the boss did not buy. and i guess silva yesterday showed him what a big mistake that was! cleverly is a good lad but he should be second to an established player so that he can develop faster and reach his potential! 4. LB: did you look at Evra, I don't know if his confidence is blinding him but for me him and Ferdinand with all their experience or on the declining slope a decent replacement has to be considered, I genuinely believe in Smalling and Jones, I think they will fill their shoes very soon, but I would be worried about our full back given the da silvas proneness to injury. I am sorry guys you might feel the frustration in what I say, but we cannot go on that way! we will never get the UCL again leave aside the EPL!
    Great post mate. I'm feeling your pain.
    Paul Scholes 18 Forever my favorite player!
    & My spelling is poor because I am from Denmark :)
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 10:56 AM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    I can't agree more.. I live outside UK and therefore I don't have the luxury of attending the games but i make sure i watch every single game on TV and due to the time difference I usually have to leave work to watch.. but yesterday was disastrous, I couldn't believe it .. I am still in shock and I want someone to tell me that was just a bad dream I had! I guess I never thought I had this much love for United until this day because It affected everything about me! to an extent some thought I had someone dead in my family! never the less what's right is right, this was a good lesson to the gaffer to get the quality and potential and not rely on the cheep buys with huge potential, no offence, I love Chechareto but don't expect every buy to be a new chechareto! here are my pain points: 1. Evans: he is young, inexperienced and has his whole future in front of him but he cannot cut it! I have seen him over and over making the same mistakes (to an extent he admitted he almost got sacked last season) yet the boss keeps on finding excuses for him! 2. DMF: who have we got? Carrick? I cant add to what many of you already wrote, but even with his potential, who is his replacement? no one! 3. AMF: so the boss did not buy. and i guess silva yesterday showed him what a big mistake that was! cleverly is a good lad but he should be second to an established player so that he can develop faster and reach his potential! 4. LB: did you look at Evra, I don't know if his confidence is blinding him but for me him and Ferdinand with all their experience or on the declining slope a decent replacement has to be considered, I genuinely believe in Smalling and Jones, I think they will fill their shoes very soon, but I would be worried about our full back given the da silvas proneness to injury. I am sorry guys you might feel the frustration in what I say, but we cannot go on that way! we will never get the UCL again leave aside the EPL!
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 10:27 AM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    K I D:

    rieckeher:
    OMG: What a *** glory hunter...

    generic insult when people on this site have no genuine sensible response.

    Leaving a match early does not mean you are going to stop supporting them when you get home. But if i paid for my ticket I can leave when I want. Wether you like it or not. As i said before, i have stayed in the past when united are losing, but yesterday, i would have left early. You can get emotional about it but it wont change my standpoint.Yes4

    Its over now anyways, lets move on.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. :( :(
    Paul Scholes 18 Forever my favorite player!
    & My spelling is poor because I am from Denmark :)
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 10:01 AM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    Not much to say that hasn't been said already.

    In complete agreement with OP - leaving a match early regardless of the score is a disgrace. What sort of a message does it send out when your being battered and you leave with your tail between your legs? Stand up, sing your heart out (something that does not happen at OT for the majority) and have some dignity in defeat. Turning off your tv or walking away in disgust is, in my opinion, pathetic. Let's be honest, this is something hardly any of us have had to endure in our lifetime of loving this club, it's new to us and we have to take it on the chin, as do the players and staff. City exposed our frailties which will hopefully open Fergies eyes to some of the weak links in our team. Jonny Evans has never been up to scratch wearing our shirt, he has had his moments but has always looked a liability. Why Jones didn't start yesterday I have no clue.
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 9:24 AM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    This was hard to take. It was made worse by the fact it was to our bitter rivals.

    However, regardless of whether we are winning 8-2 or losing 1-6, I will stick with United until the end. We win as a team, we draw as a team and we lose a team. We share success and suffer failure as a team. We're not a just an 11 man team, we're a 20-million strong team. I believe in us. We have 20-million fans; we have 20-million voices. I want our 20-million voices to be heard - no matter the result, we're United through and through, until the end.
    Walk with the moment
    Reply
  • 24 Oct 2011 9:22 AM

    Re: If you cannot handle the bitterness of defeat.....

    rieckeher:
    OMG: What a *** glory hunter...

    generic insult when people on this site have no genuine sensible response.

    Leaving a match early does not mean you are going to stop supporting them when you get home. But if i paid for my ticket I can leave when I want. Wether you like it or not. As i said before, i have stayed in the past when united are losing, but yesterday, i would have left early. You can get emotional about it but it wont change my standpoint.Yes4

    Its over now anyways, lets move on.

    Reply
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