4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, Rooney behind Wellbeck, whatever, its not going to cut it on the highest stage, i said it on a couple of threads a few weeks ago and no one cared, however last night has further emphasized my point, just as last seasons champions league did, you need 3 central midfielders in the middle of the pitch, and Rooney dropping in the hole isn't gonna count unless you want your midfield to be dominated by the top teams , Kagawa in the hole will be ideal as when he drops deep hes like a proper midfielder and will be comfortable helping to orchestrate the game, unless he proves me otherwise. Also, with Kagawa in the hole you will see Rooney come to life ahead of him as he will actually have regular service, unlike when we played 4-5-1 previously he didnt look good in it because he didnt get the ball.

Cleverbeck.:

England had the exact same average positions last night as Italy. The blame lies at the feet of the terrible players like Milner and Parker.

Agreed, Parker was awful and Milner on the wing... give the lad a chance. Rooney and Welbeck/Carroll were left in the lurch with zero passes to them from the middle and Young was just bad all day, Gerrard did well and tried but until we see the likes of Wilshire, Rodwell and Clevs in there we will never see good passing and movement. Roys stubborn formation and lack of technical management cost us yesterday, Pirlo made us look very average and Scholes/Carrick in there could have saved us a pushed Gerrard up the field.

Carroll was terrible but we lost the game in midfield and the fact none of our defenders were willing to pass the ball out from defense but they did play well otherwise.

Cleverbeck.:

England had the exact same average positions last night as Italy. The blame lies at the feet of the terrible players like Milner and Parker.

England failed the same way Ireland did and that was because we were not able to string more than two passes together. From Milner, to Cole, to Gerrard to Rooney to young. Its the culture of the game in this region of the world that has an emphasis of kick and run and that wont do against any decent teams. Look at the average teams such as Poland and the Cech's. They lacked really any stand out players but were more than capable of keeping the ball and passing it around at ease. Culture of the game has to change or national teams in Ireland and Britain are going to be stuck in the past of big, physical players and long balls. Jesus, look at Carroll. He shouldn't be a footballer. He should be a prop forward for Leicester. Things have to change and it needs to start at grass roots level. Just amazes me how Scholes became the player he is when he started out there was no focus on passing, no encouraging of football instincts. By all logic back then he shouldn't have been allowed to play football because he wasn't big enough or fast enough. A lot of backward thinking in the 90's has probably destroyed a lot of players who were technically gifted and promoted a lot of players who had no right to kick a ball.

mb28mbrook:

Ruud van the man`s main fan:

Trying a 4-4-2 when Gerrard and Parker do not play in that set up for their clubs.

Gerrard sometimes does, and Parker always does. Spurs play with a 4 man midfield, with VDV just behind main ST, it's just like England who played 4 man midfield with Rooney behind Welbeck.

Gerrard rarely plays in a 4-4-2, in fact he has not played in the little amount of games he manages for Liverpool last season. Spurs are well known for alternating formations when they are trailing, they start with a 4-3-3, with Adebayor supported by Bale and VDV.

Roy tends to play a ridged 442 formation, for the first 20 mins we had some decent play good possession, as soon as Italy get on the ball we drop deeper and deeper losing our confidence on the ball. This team is a work in progress im not sure what everybody was expecting to happen, we need a good influx of youth into our squad.

Luckily we have the likes of Cleverley, Wilshere, Walker, Welbeck, Smalling, Jones, Ox etc hopefully we will see these players come to the front and the likes of Milner, Parker dropped.

Cleverbeck.:

England had the exact same average positions last night as Italy. The blame lies at the feet of the terrible players like Milner and Parker.

This is true. Let's not forget the unhealthy level of Liverpool players too. Does Roy not know Liverpool fired him?

Ruud van the man`s main fan:

Trying a 4-4-2 when Gerrard and Parker do not play in that set up for their clubs.

Gerrard sometimes does, and Parker always does. Spurs play with a 4 man midfield, with VDV just behind main ST, it's just like England who played 4 man midfield with Rooney behind Welbeck.

I don't think 4-4-2 is outdated, its just that you need the right players for it. This formation needs top quality central midfielders, both of whom are good at defending and attacking, then you need two strikers who you are almost certain will score, and they have to be on the same wave length really, otherwise it will most likely be a failure. I believe with the right team, a 4-4-2 can be just as efficient as a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3.

4-4-2 just get overun by other midfields who now usually have three or at least 2 holding midfielders and an attacking midfielder. 4-4-2 just does not have the link up play that these formations that other teams operate have.

England definitely cant pull of 4-4-2 against big teams.United do it better but not great.I wouldnt mind seeing a change in our formation next season.I just hope Kagawa will be used as AM instead of being wasted out on the left.

Red:

Especially against the bigger clubs.

you need a well tuned in team to get results this way!!! if the players are all on the same wave lenght,know there job,stick to there job's, it works.very hard to get rite.complete concentrasion(spellin) needed..

Which is why Carrick and Scholes should be lauded for playing the 4-4-2 with such class. Come on Roy what were you thinking??Trying a 4-4-2 when Gerrard and Parker do not play in that set up for their clubs.

england failed due to the FA! too many games in english competitions, fa cup, premier league, carling cup games at espec premier league which is the most competitive! and NO WINTER BREAK either, the players looked tired after 60+ matches in one season!

England had the exact same average positions last night as Italy. The blame lies at the feet of the terrible players like Milner and Parker.

Cleverbeck.:

Bitter Welshman much?

Im just stating the obvious, I just hope to god the formation changes with Kagawas arrival!