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  • 2 Jul 2012 5:50 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    pele 10:
    ronan99:
    pele 10:
    ronan99:
    weareno1:
    pele 10:
    weareno1:
    pele 10:
    weareno1:
    united have done nothing to show me that they are closing the gap on the spanish duo and maybe this coming season might be different. but if you compare the players coming out of the barca camp and ours. the barca camp is simply better and untill that changes i really dont expect man utd to dominate cuz its the academy that reallymatters
    How will we know until they mature and reach there full potential? Right now we are only speculating about the young players. A couple injuries at the wrong time can certainly have a detrimental effect. Look at us this past season.

    Say what you like but you take Xavi out of the Barca lineup and they struggle. Same with Real when Alonzo isn´t on the pitch. Never mind injuries like we had last season.

    what i said is the club havent done anything to show the gap is being closed and there is no denying that. you talk as if barca do not have young players coming through. i havent said the gap will never be closed what i am talking about is based on what i have seen not what i am hoping to see
    Well what I saw was a lot of injuries and a lack of chemistry nothing more. So why would I think the gap is getting any wider then it was when we faced Barca in the 2011 CL final?

    Who knows what would happen if we faced them again? How can you say the Spanish duo? When is the last time Real made the final? Barca we have lost twice to them in the final but everyone knows anything can happen in one game.

    I´m talking about what I saw before the horrendous string of injuries started last season. There all a year older, more mature and hopefully the injury bug is behind them.

    i never said the gap is getting wider
    the gap is getting wider.
    Speculation. Based on what? A season filled with injuries and lack of team chemistry? Brilliant!!!
    make excuses all you like..our squad isn't strong enough if one or two big players get injured we struggle..imagine if rooney got injured for a season..we'd have no hope.
    It would have been nice to only have to cover one injury. I´m sure SAF would have been ecstatic only having to deal with one injury instead of 6 or 7 at any given time. Take a look around how many teams can cope when one of the so called stars get hurt.

    What was Barcas excuse this year? Did they win any silverware? With all the money City spent did you notice how they struggled without Kompany or when Yaya Toure was away at the Africa Cup of Nations.

    Barcelona won the super cup, copa del rey, and the world club championship, they also played the majority of the season without a centre forward.
    Nobody nobody nobody does it better than Manchester United
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 5:45 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    ronan99:
    united would struggle in the spanish league against possession style teams..bilbao finished 9th and they completely destroyed us twice..athletico madrid destroyed bilbao in the final. keeping possession instead of booting the ball up the pitch is a more effective style of play. 442 might work in a weak premier league but it doesn't work in europe or at international level.
    Agreed the posession game is far superior to all this attack attack long ball nonsense in the prem. Bilbao would outplay any team in England and their not even top 4 in spain.
    Nobody nobody nobody does it better than Manchester United
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 5:44 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    To change the way we play shouldn't be that hard after all we are a club team if we work at it will surely come together after all we are not Chelsea at least we do try to keep the ball and dominate matches only in the last season have we tended to play less keep ball and tended to play more on the break exploiting the pace of Valencia, Nani and Young which has worked ok but at times against teams like Barca and Citeh who can keep the ball better we were out of our depth. The front players in particular, Chicharito, Rooney and Welbeck must surely learn to keep the ball and hold on to it better if we are to make ground on the Spanish Giants. If SAF can manage to improve the way United and just may be find an effective wat to stop the domination of world football by Spain without the need to park the but then may be England might stand a chance of competing at the top level. sAF & United will be extra crucial for Roy Hodgson we have Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Cleverley, Carrick, Rooney and Welbeck those could easily all be starters come the next world cup in 2014 that's half his team if England are to get anywhere near Germany let alone Spain
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 4:41 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    wliucci:
    steersyutd:
    I have read this post and am shocked nobody has pointed out the obvious. Barca have dominated football really for the last few years with the odd blip here and there, they have done that by having a team that has a core of academy players that have grown up with each other and a sprinkling of purchased players. Does this remind you of a certain team that we possesed?
    yeah i dont know where this belief comes from, the idea that barca is some totally organic fary tale team. Barca's net spending over the last 7 years is £80million, that's 8 times our net spending since the glazers took over.

    just in the last 6 years ibrahimovic-£40mill Villa-35mill Dani alves-30mill fabregas 30mill Chygrynskiy 20mill henry-20 mill mascherano 20 mill deco-20 mill plus some monster wages. the days when you can win everything by being a tight ass are long gone

    Not sure I understand your post, I you agreeing with me or disagreeing. The core of the team is homegrown and they have added to there team just like Man utd did. You can also take Fabregas out of the equation as he was also from there academy.
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 4:35 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    steersyutd:
    I have read this post and am shocked nobody has pointed out the obvious. Barca have dominated football really for the last few years with the odd blip here and there, they have done that by having a team that has a core of academy players that have grown up with each other and a sprinkling of purchased players. Does this remind you of a certain team that we possesed?

    The problem is that English football lost a generation of the best young players going to the best youth academies due to the change in rules on Youth development, the likes of Ryan Giggs and David Beckham would not have been allowed to be part of our academy under the current rules. These rules are about to change again for the better but this has been the reason that youth scouting has mainly been used outside of our shores where the rules do not apply. Barca on the other hand have a great youth set up without any of the restrictions and this has been the base of there current success, this is also why Spain has done so well on the back of the Barca youth set up, Spain is a core of youth academy from Barca with a sprinkling of the other best Spanish players.

    These things go in cycles, will Spain be as strong in 4 years time when Xavi will probably not be playing, Iniesta will be 32, Alonso will probably not be playing. What will happen when the core of Barca are to old? Do they have players of similar quality coming through, good maybe but not as good as what they have at the moment. FFP will stop them from spending 100 million on players, so the cycle starts again somewhere else. Possibly Switzerland who have over the last few years been improving there youth policy and have some great youth international teams. Who knows?

    What I do know is the bubble will burst for Spain, just like it did with Brazil, Holland, Italy and Germany.

    My feeling exactly steersy. Trends and cycles. I don´t know how people can believe it will just continue on to infinity. I´m sure that is what dinosaurs thought 65 million years ago as well. Everyday just means we are getting closer to the end of the cycle.

    Why do some people believe the only way to beat the likes of Barca and Spain is to be better at there style game then they are. There are more ways to play football that are just as attractive and just as effective as the Spanish/Barca way. Like the way Arsenal played in 2011 or the way United were playing at the start of last season before all the injuries.

    I think if everyone can stay healthy and give SAF a wider range of options it could be a very interesting season. Whether we make anymore signings or not.

    As for the international side I think we should be adapting there approach. For example take Rooney, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Cleverley and Young from United and build around them instead of one or two players from this club and one or two players from that club. Not to mention how often the faces change before every competition. Hopefully Hodgson will pick a 25 man group or whatever and stick with them for a few seasons

    How are you going to develop any chemistry or continuity with the revolving door concept we have been used to in past. People want to blame it on the quality of English players how rediculous.

    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 4:05 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    wliucci:
    leeman:
    You can take ibrah and henry and also deco out of the equation because they have left now, there sucessful team that they have now is mostly made up of academy players but i dont deny with you that they have made some transfer howlers mate, ibrahimovic is a top player but the swap deal plus money was ridiculous.
    that's not the point. the point is people look look at the barca example and think it's about the perfect case of winning with home grown players when infact they are one of the biggest spenders in the market over the last 10 years in both transfer and player wages. the problem is we get too many people talking about barca as some kind of example that you dont have to spend money to win when in fact they just havent seen the figures
    I said remove them because the team they have now they arnt in, yes they spent money on those players you mentioned and yes there are big spenders but if they never spent that sort of money on those players where would they be? still right at the top in my opinion. The homegrown players they have has made them great but i dont agree they are big spenders as well, they have wasted alot of money in my opinion.
    Paul Scholes our midfield maestro!
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 4:00 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    leeman:
    You can take ibrah and henry and also deco out of the equation because they have left now, there sucessful team that they have now is mostly made up of academy players but i dont deny with you that they have made some transfer howlers mate, ibrahimovic is a top player but the swap deal plus money was ridiculous.
    that's not the point. the point is people look look at the barca example and think it's about the perfect case of winning with home grown players when infact they are one of the biggest spenders in the market over the last 10 years in both transfer and player wages. the problem is we get too many people talking about barca as some kind of example that you dont have to spend money to win when in fact they just havent seen the figures
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:55 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    wliucci:
    steersyutd:
    I have read this post and am shocked nobody has pointed out the obvious. Barca have dominated football really for the last few years with the odd blip here and there, they have done that by having a team that has a core of academy players that have grown up with each other and a sprinkling of purchased players. Does this remind you of a certain team that we possesed?
    yeah i dont know where this belief comes from, the idea that barca is some totally organic fary tale team. Barca's net spending over the last 7 years is £80million, that's 8 times our net spending since the glazers took over. remember some of these...?

    just in the last 6 years ibrahimovic-£40mill Villa-35mill Dani alves-30mill fabregas 30mill Chygrynskiy 20mill henry-20 mill mascherano 20 mill deco-20 mill plus some monster wages.

    You can take ibrah and henry and also deco out of the equation because they have left now, there sucessful team that they have now is mostly made up of academy players but i dont deny with you that they have made some transfer howlers mate, ibrahimovic is a top player but the swap deal plus money was ridiculous.
    Paul Scholes our midfield maestro!
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:54 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    spain were brilliant yesterday. just fantastic
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:51 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    steersyutd:
    I have read this post and am shocked nobody has pointed out the obvious. Barca have dominated football really for the last few years with the odd blip here and there, they have done that by having a team that has a core of academy players that have grown up with each other and a sprinkling of purchased players. Does this remind you of a certain team that we possesed?
    yeah i dont know where this belief comes from, the idea that barca is some totally organic fary tale team. Barca's net spending over the last 7 years is £80million, that's 8 times our net spending since the glazers took over.

    just in the last 6 years ibrahimovic-£40mill Villa-35mill Dani alves-30mill fabregas 30mill Chygrynskiy 20mill henry-20 mill mascherano 20 mill deco-20 mill plus some monster wages. the days when you can win everything by being a tight ass are long gone

    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:42 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    eddie moroney:
    By that statement it tells me you have never played football because no one that plays football would say that ( don't say kicking a ball against the wall on your own is playing the game)
    I would actually bother to reply to your post if you didnt put this, no need to insult my opinion by putting something like this. Everything else you have put has really nothing to do with what i have put, you have quoted half a sentence from me and then rambled about something i havnt even wrote. So i hope you enjoyed wasting your time tryin to start an arguement lol.
    Paul Scholes our midfield maestro!
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:28 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    I have read this post and am shocked nobody has pointed out the obvious. Barca have dominated football really for the last few years with the odd blip here and there, they have done that by having a team that has a core of academy players that have grown up with each other and a sprinkling of purchased players. Does this remind you of a certain team that we possesed?

    The problem is that English football lost a generation of the best young players going to the best youth academies due to the change in rules on Youth development, the likes of Ryan Giggs and David Beckham would not have been allowed to be part of our academy under the current rules. These rules are about to change again for the better but this has been the reason that youth scouting has mainly been used outside of our shores where the rules do not apply. Barca on the other hand have a great youth set up without any of the restrictions and this has been the base of there current success, this is also why Spain has done so well on the back of the Barca youth set up, Spain is a core of youth academy from Barca with a sprinkling of the other best Spanish players.

    These things go in cycles, will Spain be as strong in 4 years time when Xavi will probably not be playing, Iniesta will be 32, Alonso will probably not be playing. What will happen when the core of Barca are to old? Do they have players of similar quality coming through, good maybe but not as good as what they have at the moment. FFP will stop them from spending 100 million on players, so the cycle starts again somewhere else. Possibly Switzerland who have over the last few years been improving there youth policy and have some great youth international teams. Who knows?

    What I do know is the bubble will burst for Spain, just like it did with Brazil, Holland, Italy and Germany.

    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 3:16 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    leeman:
    In some matches of the euroes spain actually got found out,
    What? They were found out that even when they are lethargic, playing at their poorest and wrecked after playing non stop together for 4 years that they can still beat a team playing well above their level.
    leeman:
    portugal should have won over the full 90minutes
    Portugal had one shot on target and were playing for penalties coming to the end of the 2nd half. Spain raised their game in Injury time further and could/should have won it before penalties. Still, Iberian derby. Form goes out the window in those matches doesn't it.
    leeman:
    italy in the group stage played well and could have won it if they finished better.
    What? After Di Natalie scored they didn't produce another chance while Torres missed 2 guilt edge chances to win it in the end.
    leeman:
    A day ago people was calling spain boring and not entertaining and i still stand by that
    By that statement it tells me you have never played football because no one that plays football would say that ( don't say kicking a ball against the wall on your own is playing the game).
    leeman:
    one game doesnt change that but on the other hand i dont think they aim to entertain,
    No. three trophy winning tournaments does, which has never been done before ever. Also they are the most skillful team on the planet and pass the ball better than any other person/team in the history of the Game. Not only am I entertained I've witness the best team of all time.
    leeman:
    Spain of this year dont seem to have the fear factor that they once did i feel,
    Wow, what an amazing observation.
    leeman:
    every good thing has to come to an end and spains dominance will one day end .
    Yeah. But not for a while and by the end will be rated the best international team of all time. They have reason to be called that now and not solely because of the trophies they won but how they did it and by how much. You get an idea of what is in store for the national team when you look at the underage level. Not only are Spain dominating at senior level but also U21 and U18. Its a conveyor belt that will add to what ever leaves. Only players that could possibly retire by the next world cup is Xavi and Puyol. You still got an ocean of talent to fill that void. You see I'm not a Spain/Barca fan; for some reason people can't see the distinctions between the two, I just love playing the game and love to see it played to the best if can possibly be. Hence the worst ever match I saw was Greece v Portugal in Euro 2004. It was so anti-football I thought it was the end of the game evolving and a return to the dark ages. The way Spain play or any Spanish team has been a massive tonic for the sport. There legacy will not be what they won but what they changed in the game. People in other countries are copying their techniques. Skill over Athleticism. Technique over physicality. Guile over Height footballing instincts over speed. What Spanish players have shown the world is that you can be 5 foot nothing, slow as a turtle, thin as a whip and still be the best player in the world and win trophies by the barrel load. Not just the high profile clubs and nations are mimicking this. Small nations and clubs are following suit and its making the game at club level and international level much more spectator friendly to watch and evolving the game further. Another team in the future are going to beat Spain at their own game but its because of their game that has inspired their down fall in the end and that will be their legacy. To inspire everyone else to evolve.
    I have a sense of myself but I'm not too aware!
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 2:08 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    manu wr10:
    ronan99:
    pele 10:
    ronan99:
    they destroyed us in the champions league final we only got one shot on goal and that was rooneys goal..we didnt get one corner
    That was one game. Who knows what will happen when or if we face them again?
    they destroyed us in the other final also..we had a 15 minute spell and after that it was all barca..lets just admit it they are miles better than us and we've lots of improving to do.
    Yeah they are simply better. Theres supporting and then theres blindly supporting dont fall into the latter. And in regards to the comment that we would get destroyed in la liga, Do you guys remember 1-0 vs valencia in the CL a couple of years ago. Thats how we would play against them.Very Few goals and mainly on the counter as they possess the ball better. Not really a good tactic for a top team to do imo.
    Possibly but if we were playing that style all of the time I think we would adapt and give Barca and Real a run for their money. It is much different only playing that style in CL and Europa league.
    Reply
  • 2 Jul 2012 2:06 PM

    Re: Spanish football to boss for years, while Man Utd and others look on?

    The result at the end of the match doesn't really reflect the match till destiny red-carded Motta.

    Yes Spain played very well in this match, but remember me after Xavi retires.

    Xavi for Spain is like Maradona for Argentina but with less profile since he is not scoring that much.

    Personally I believe yesterday was yet an announcement that Spain have great team, but they have The Great Midfielder of all times... Xavi H.
    Let's start again mistake is corrected and now we have to cure the wounds
    Reply
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