General United Discussion

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

thomas21 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:43:18 GMT

Well he is Human, after all.......Absolutely Fantastic Player, that anyone, would pay to go and see......

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Moyesy — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:36:22 GMT

Rooney Toons:
Seems pretty obvious to me: more often than not when Messi gets the ball he attempts to run at/pass right through the opposition defence. He may lose it more than most, but when he doesn't, more often than not he scores.

I agree this is most probably true...

HOWEVER... say for example, Nani had similar stats, he noticably lost the ball more than any other player. He started taking more players on, started shooting more, tried to make things happen, (with a variance of success) would our fans stand for it?

Are Barca set up to allow Messi to perform? Are Argentina not?

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Moyesy — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:28:52 GMT

Red:
Stats mean nothing, if you doubt Messi's talent, then my friend, you know nothing about football!

Where have i doubted Messi's talent? He's a sensational player!

All ive done is post some stats and allow people to discuss them.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Red — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:23:28 GMT

Moyesy:
Leo Messi has lost possession of the ball more times than any other player in La Liga this season.
Messi - 261 / Verdu - 239 / Didac - 234 / Valero - 227 / Navas - 209
Is he not actually that good? Does he have the ball more, therefore likely to lose the ball more? Do Barca set up specifically for Messi? Could this be a factor why Messi is much more effective for Barca than he is for Argentina?
Any interpretation of these stats welcome...

Stats mean nothing, if you doubt Messi's talent, then my friend, you know nothing about football! There was a thread on here the other day about Carrick and all these stats, and the poster tried to prove that Carrick was the best midfielder in the EPL! If those stats are anything to go by, then Carrick, Petrov, Diame and some other two average premiership players are the best in the league! Stats prove nothing! Statistically, we have only scored from one corner this season, and that was an own goal! Stats are pathetic, useless ***, that nobody should go by, unless its goals, assists, key passes, yellow card, red cards!

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Nr10Rooney — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:01:29 GMT

Grandmaster87:
They said its because when Messi has the ball, he always does amazing stuff...Some basics but most of the stuff he does is crazy...insane through balls, chips etc...hence the ball is lost more than anyone else :) Does this stat mean anything? NO...Its official, Messi is the best player in the world, not even Cristiano comes close...And i thought Cristiano was the best until i started watching Messi more closely...This dude is insane... He ripped us in 2 UCL Finals...his greatness cannot be undermined!

Soo true m8 - but ronaldo will only become the best player in world........ if he return to the club who made him :)

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Ben.red — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:43:23 GMT

Great player, But i still think Ronny is a better player IMO. Not because he played for us he has everything 2 great feet, Free kicks, Penaltys, great in the air. I watched a documentary on Ronaldo a while back he is a machine lol.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Rooney Toons — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:25:11 GMT

Seems pretty obvious to me: more often than not when Messi gets the ball he attempts to run at/pass right through the opposition defence. He may lose it more than most, but when he doesn't, more often than not he scores. It's for the same reason that Leon Britton has an even higher pass-rate than Xavi - because Swansea maintain possession deep inside their own half, which is hardly difficult. Whereas Barca's passing play takes place on the edge of the opposition's box, under constant heavy pressure.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

dan87 — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:24:02 GMT

Ronaldo hit his peak with Utd and was looking like a player who can get 40 a season easily. He went to Spain and broke scoring records for Madrid and in La Liga. 117 goals in 120 games and a goal every 70 minutes in the league. It's just his performances with Portugal that let him down.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

mb28mbrook — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:11:26 GMT

dan87:
Until Messi proves himself outside of Barca/Spain and in a different country or has at least five years of consistent performances for Argentina i will struggle to call him the best ever. Pele spent his best years with Santos before winding down with New York Cosmos but he is best known for playing in a couple of great Brazil teams. The combination of the two and his scoring record of nearly a goal a game will secure his place in history.

exactly!

without question he probably recieves the ball more than any other player in the league, but considering how highly people rate him, he shouldn't be top of the list for losing the ball! Ronaldo is a better player, fact.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

dan87 — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:02:17 GMT

Until Messi proves himself outside of Barca/Spain and in a different country or has at least five years of consistent performances for Argentina i will struggle to call him the best ever. Pele spent his best years with Santos before winding down with New York Cosmos but he is best known for playing in a couple of great Brazil teams. The combination of the two and his scoring record of nearly a goal a game will secure his place in history.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

IrelandUnited — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:47:30 GMT

I'd take Ronaldo over Messi any day!

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

mike_kama — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:33:52 GMT

Moyesy:
Leo Messi has lost possession of the ball more times than any other player in La Liga this season.
Messi - 261 / Verdu - 239 / Didac - 234 / Valero - 227 / Navas - 209
Is he not actually that good? Does he have the ball more, therefore likely to lose the ball more? Do Barca set up specifically for Messi? Could this be a factor why Messi is much more effective for Barca than he is for Argentina?
Any interpretation of these stats welcome...

Pele put it best! Messi will have trouble proving his best player position until he actually performs out of his club! No wonder he doesn't want to leave! Messi is a talented footballer in a group of talent just as Puyol and Pique are decent but aren't tested as much due the midfield talent! To me, a true gem in a field of smoke and mirrors is Andres Iniesta! And no wonder, his mentor is non other than Paul Scholes! No need for introductions, the name says it all!

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

realbeckham23 — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:29:08 GMT

whorms:
Rea isnt built around ronaldo, neither do they depend on him like how barca do with messi

They rely on Ronaldo alot, they definitely wouldn't be as good without him. In big games if Ronaldo goes anonymous then Real will lose. Look at the first clasico Ronaldo had maybe 10 touches and Real lost 3-1.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Ruud van the man`s main fan — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:08:38 GMT

I think Messi has had the fortune at Barcelona, look how they transformed from having proper centre forwards like Etoó, Ibrahimovic and now they made a goal scorer play wide left to bring the best out of Messi, lets be honest here, Messi has great close control and is one of the finest in dribbling, but how different is this Messi, to the Ryan Giggs 15 years ago?? Giggs never had the luxury of having the team bulit around him, in fact he has adapted to how the team plays over the years and not even Messi can do that, Argentina used to look so strong when they had Simeone and Redondo in midfield with Veron, Ortega and Claudio Lopez providing support for Batistuta. Now Argentina cant even conquer South America like they used to.

Re: Leo Messi - Interesting stat

Moyesy — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:28:37 GMT

Gavin2011:
You really think having messi in the team brings problems?

If this was in response to me, i meant as in he still causes a huge number of problems to the opposition defence dispite the extra attention he recieves from them.