General United Discussion

Re: A constructive criticism thread

foxbat — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 12:59:06 GMT

It seems that most people agree that we need players whose first touch is very good, whose ball control is very good, who can keep possession of the ball under pressure, who can make the short pass, who has the vision to create chances and who works hard. Well we already have a player who is all that in everyone's opinion bar the last bit. So why is Dimitar Berbatov not playing for United? Would people like Herrera and Winterbottom be success now? I would say SAF has been the greatest British Manager but on the International stage he has his short comings. That is the crux of the whole issue now for United. Unfortunately this would not change for a while unless he accepts it and resigns, Which is unlikely and we would meander like this for a long time, maybe winning the EPL and failing in Europe or just being second in the EPL and failing in Europe.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

Cyprus stelios — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:17:15 GMT

Completely agree with this thread SimonP, especially when you read some of the joke comments supporting the team, the manager, the tactics no matter how bad they have all become. The so called glory hunter bashers are so blinkered they should be on a race course!

Re: A constructive criticism thread

Generaldiehardmamba — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:56:46 GMT

iam_kramer:
Generaldiehardmamba:
iam_kramer:
Generaldiehardmamba:
We have a LOT of work to do if we want to compete with the best

painful but true
I know this will be greeted by insults but our failure will give us the wake up call and hopefully lessons will be learnt for the summer!!!

i don't think you'll get insults for that man. although people dish them out here for free.
well, this is our fourth lesson now. after the champions league finals. I don't mind getting outplayed by probably the best team that has ever been (although it hurt like hell) but by bilbao? i know they're a great young team, i don't want to disrespect them. but we should be beating that team. but we didn't get near.... it's just really sad

I agree

Re: A constructive criticism thread

True Red 92 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:54:46 GMT

Cleverley, Anderson, Carrick & Park must go. They may be quality on their day but theyr'e just not elite level which is what we are all about and what we are built on. We MUST spend big on world class players such as Eriksson of Ajax (what a player) We are in dyer need of a midfield general, that of a Keane mould. (saying that Pogba could have a big futre here if he wants it enough) I have no quarrles with Chica & Welbeck, i truly belive they will go on to become United legends. Berba ? We all know he's more than good enough but who knows with Fergie now telling him he can go at the end of the season. Get rid of dead weight and just go for the marquee signings like we always used to. I still think we have just about enough pulling power to do so. It's about BUILDING from now and not dwelling on our steady decline (especially in Europe) Anyway i will always have my heart and soul firmly embedded in this club, the BEST and most popular club in the history of world football. MANCHESTER UNITED TILL I DIE & BEYOND.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

True Red 92 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:39:31 GMT

It's so simple, we must aquire world class players, at least 2. Anderson and Cleverley had a promising start to the season in the centre but faded away like i knew they would. (both are good but nowere near good enough) Kills me to say it but after this season Giggs and Scholes simply must retire. (Scholes has been brilliant thus far this season to be fair but my point stands.) Park has been a true grafter and ambassidor for the club but he just isn't at the elite level required. I think Pogba can have a big future at the club if he wants too. I have no worries over Webleck & Chica, both exellent and worthy United players. Berba ? Who knows Carrick, just about good enough but is the wrong side of 30 The twins, i love them and think they will get better and better even though their defensive side is lacking sometimes (who knows Rafael especially maybe a winger 1 day) I strongly believe we need to sign players who can play exquisite 1 and 2 touch passing football like Xavi & iniesta etc. Someone like Eriksson of Ajax. Refreshing additions of elite class players can only enhance our artillary. This is a MUST.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

adam parker — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:35:23 GMT

SimonP:
The one thing that gets at me, when there are perhaps a wonderful talent available and Fergie claims that there's no value in the market and prices are over-inflated

Coming from the man who sold Cristiano Ronaldo for £80million..

This squad needs improving, and unfortunately money will need to be spent to do so, I'd hope the clubs European performances this season would be a testament to that

I have to admit, SimonP, I agree wholeheartedly. I do, however, think, we'll see a few signings this summer or I hope so. In fairness the squad has been decimated by injuries this season, which although is fact is not the sole reason for the lackluster performance in Europe, especially. Well, it has been said that the club had no interest in Europa only the league silverware... this will be put to the test the next several weeks. Love the lads whether they win, lose or draw; though I prefer the former.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

bobbycharlton101 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:14:50 GMT

No spirit is the problem. Yes Park is very average but often he is left waiting in open space as he is not passed to and tonight he worked for the full 90 mins + winning the ball. More players were way worse tonight such as Young and Cleverely.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

fergiesfutureisbrightdefinitelynotorange — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:03:57 GMT

SimonP:
Not sure about most of you, but I personally think anyone can be criticised

It quite infuriates me when anyone who criticises a player or the manager is immediately branded a glory hunter, or not a real fan, or reminded of the clubs history

Perhaps a thread that people can vent frustrations without some troll having a cry about it may be a good place

I will happily start by saying we have far too many mediocre players, Park, Carrick, Evans (who was lately been playing well in fairness, but I think long term, he's not good enough), Rafael lacks defensive appeal

It's clear to see that the squad needs strengthening in the middle of the park, but SAF doesn't seem to see it like that?

It's not SAF its the Glazers!

Re: A constructive criticism thread

iam_kramer — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:02:01 GMT

Generaldiehardmamba:
iam_kramer:
Generaldiehardmamba:
We have a LOT of work to do if we want to compete with the best

painful but true
I know this will be greeted by insults but our failure will give us the wake up call and hopefully lessons will be learnt for the summer!!!

i don't think you'll get insults for that man. although people dish them out here for free.

well, this is our fourth lesson now. after the champions league finals. I don't mind getting outplayed by probably the best team that has ever been (although it hurt like hell) but by bilbao? i know they're a great young team, i don't want to disrespect them. but we should be beating that team. but we didn't get near.... it's just really sad

Re: A constructive criticism thread

Alan77 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:54:45 GMT

SimonP:
Not sure about most of you, but I personally think anyone can be criticised

It quite infuriates me when anyone who criticises a player or the manager is immediately branded a glory hunter, or not a real fan, or reminded of the clubs history

Perhaps a thread that people can vent frustrations without some troll having a cry about it may be a good place

I will happily start by saying we have far too many mediocre players, Park, Carrick, Evans (who was lately been playing well in fairness, but I think long term, he's not good enough), Rafael lacks defensive appeal

It's clear to see that the squad needs strengthening in the middle of the park, but SAF doesn't seem to see it like that?

We need skills... The never say die attitude is good for EPL... We have won CL once past 10 years and thats when we had Ronaldo/Tevez/Hargreaves and younger Scholes/Giggs.. With those lumberjacks we have in Midfielder we can hope for nothing good in europe... Bilbao missed 4/5 open goals last 15 minuets...

Re: A constructive criticism thread

Generaldiehardmamba — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:48:01 GMT

iam_kramer:
Generaldiehardmamba:
We have a LOT of work to do if we want to compete with the best

painful but true

I know this will be greeted by insults but our failure will give us the wake up call and hopefully lessons will be learnt for the summer!!!

Re: A constructive criticism thread

from1957 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:47:57 GMT

Gary Nev used to say that we wear teams down and by the second half we go on to win. that is over now they are doing it to us. in Europe that is. to be constructive, we need a left fullback and move Evera to either midfield or a sub. another centre half to play with two other centre halves and close up the middle of defense, we play too far apartand one thing for sure sign Pogba he looked the part for us and will save Fergie millions he is the only player we have with the most fantastic control of a ball, he could walk into Bilbao instantly. If Fergy cant see that I give up.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

mojojojo101 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:25:53 GMT

I, personally don't mind going out to Athletic, or Bielsa but the manner in which we lost tonight and last week has annoyed me.

Pretty much all Athletic's goals came from poor concentration and poor communication, thats not good enough, that's the kind of thing these players should have learned before they even started playing for the u18's, to see it in the first team with players like Ferdinand, Evra, Evans and co. not talking to each other is just embarrasing. There also seemed to be a lack of real desire from any of our players tonight, to me Rafael looked like the only player who was capable of turning his game up a notch and at least matching Athletic's pace and power in bursts (he had a couple of unfortunate tumbles but was our best player in general I'd say)

Higher up the pitch there were big problems for me, No one was direct enough when they got past Rooney and so Rooney had to turn back a lot to try to find a pass, he needed someone ahead of him, or pushing that way at least. The midfield was too flat and all 4 who played in the more advanced band were poor on the ball and too predictable off of it. Even when the ball was in deeper positions there wasn't enough movement and Evans, Carrick and Ferdinand had very few options.

To be honest SAF was beaten here more than the players. For me his tactics were wrong, we needed players comfortable on the ball in the middle of the park not runners, we needed to keep hold of the ball when we got it and exploit the gaps Athletic leave when they press. We needed to keep our shape and concentration levels up in the defensive phase of play and limit the opposition to shots from distance. None of these things were achieved and we duly paid the price.

Then there was our pressing, or lack there-of. There seemed to be no clear plan as to when to press and when not too, when it did come it was half-*** and lazy and when it didn't the players weren't disciplined enough in their positioning. Serious work needs to be done over the summer to sort stuff like this out otherwise we risk a repeat of the hot and cold nature of this season. [Note: I still think we can win the league with such a leaky defensive shape, the fact remains that defending in England is so bad at the moment the number of goals you concede is next to irrelelvant as teams will nearly always let attacking players back in again.]

The last paragraph is not so much an attack on SAF as it may sound. He's a great manager but (like nearly every British manager of the last 50 years) is not a particularly good tactician. He has done enough to win stuff in England but against a man like Bielsa who's knowledge of the game is more than vast it was always going to be a cyhallenge to get the upper hand on the pitch.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

leecraig — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:23:13 GMT

i have to agree that alot of our players now are finished to be honest..i can honestly say that 200mil is needed on players yes some people will laugh at that but thats the harsh reality..a massive overhaul to a very poor team i bet what rooney was told regarding top players was a load of bull.

Re: A constructive criticism thread

Tekkerz — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:20:28 GMT

We dont have the squad to match teams with that type of technical ability. I think people are slightly underestimating Bilbao even when they play Barca, Barca struggle. They have a perfect mix of chemistry, strength and technical ability, Just have to say hats off to them they put in gd shift over 2 legs