General United Discussion

Re: Squad direction

stec10 — Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:51:02 GMT

manutdah:
I see the squad heading in a good direction. A lot of promising players coming through, BUT remember we just had three possible starters just get up and leave. Not saying they all will but... So we are buying young (kagawa 23 and hopefully moura 19) also have welbeck and cleverly so we are not going out and spending stupid money on older players. Moura could only be with us for 4 years and we sell him for 50 million. you NEVER know... If berba was 31, then I think we should take this gamble. Here is something I wrote/created and want people to see it: This is just the look of the formation. Kagawa and Rooney may play flat across the park at times to really connect and feed balls to Welbeck and Hernandez. Carrick and Moura (only being 19 will not play every game and every second as he will have to settle into things) will add steel and Mours is a decently strong presence and has explosive runs through the park. Kind of like the explosive Yaya Toure runs. He also has a lot of trickery and can advance at times. He plays to the end and really tries hard to he can be a box to box midfielder. Leighton Baines has a decent defensive record, but the best thing about him is his crosses, fee kicks and pks. His cross percentage is the highest in England as a LB and will prove a threat making runs and combining with Young. Scholes & Giggs have not been mentioned because they may only be on their last year, or will be used for big games/injuries or just when that "experience" is needed. Versatile players like Cleverly (CM/CAM) and Jones (DM, RB, CB) can just be used to give tired legs a break and when injuries occur. Many of these players are young but do prove to have a bright future ahead of them. Rotation is everything here. I heard there would be 2 new signings (along with Kagawa & Powell) and Lucas Moura (24mil(ish) & Anderson) & Leighton Baines (12mil) would be smart business. Lucas said he wants the 20 shirt as he wears it for Brazil (Fabio is on loan so shirt is available) and Inter failed with a 18mil bid, so United seem to be in pole position.) Another Brazilian (a young world class Brazilian) would make United reach out to Brazil more and increase shirt sales. We could also sign Moura and turn him into a world class player and his value could skyrocket for future sale. Smart business and a smart line up I would say we should go for it. PS: I also like this formation a lot. (If you can't see it, it is stec10 formation. But that leaves hernandez and welbeck out...)
stec10:
Make your football formation with this11.com
Let me know what you think.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, however I do not think that Lucas Moura could play in a deeper role. I dont think he has the frame to be relied on to break up attacks. He does however have the speed and agility to get in front of the man then draw the foul. I think as an attacking option is would be exceptional as he is lightning over the first 20 yards, his acceleration is phenomenal. Also does Lucas not wear the number 18 for Brazil?

Re: Squad direction

manutdah — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:30:40 GMT

I see the squad heading in a good direction. A lot of promising players coming through, BUT remember we just had three possible starters just get up and leave. Not saying they all will but... So we are buying young (kagawa 23 and hopefully moura 19) also have welbeck and cleverly so we are not going out and spending stupid money on older players. Moura could only be with us for 4 years and we sell him for 50 million. you NEVER know... If berba was 31, then I think we should take this gamble. Here is something I wrote/created and want people to see it: This is just the look of the formation. Kagawa and Rooney may play flat across the park at times to really connect and feed balls to Welbeck and Hernandez. Carrick and Moura (only being 19 will not play every game and every second as he will have to settle into things) will add steel and Mours is a decently strong presence and has explosive runs through the park. Kind of like the explosive Yaya Toure runs. He also has a lot of trickery and can advance at times. He plays to the end and really tries hard to he can be a box to box midfielder. Leighton Baines has a decent defensive record, but the best thing about him is his crosses, fee kicks and pks. His cross percentage is the highest in England as a LB and will prove a threat making runs and combining with Young. Scholes & Giggs have not been mentioned because they may only be on their last year, or will be used for big games/injuries or just when that "experience" is needed. Versatile players like Cleverly (CM/CAM) and Jones (DM, RB, CB) can just be used to give tired legs a break and when injuries occur. Many of these players are young but do prove to have a bright future ahead of them. Rotation is everything here. I heard there would be 2 new signings (along with Kagawa & Powell) and Lucas Moura (24mil(ish) & Anderson) & Leighton Baines (12mil) would be smart business. Lucas said he wants the 20 shirt as he wears it for Brazil (Fabio is on loan so shirt is available) and Inter failed with a 18mil bid, so United seem to be in pole position.) Another Brazilian (a young world class Brazilian) would make United reach out to Brazil more and increase shirt sales. We could also sign Moura and turn him into a world class player and his value could skyrocket for future sale. Smart business and a smart line up I would say we should go for it. PS: I also like this formation a lot. (If you can't see it, it is stec10 formation. But that leaves hernandez and welbeck out...)

stec10:
Make your football formation with this11.com

Let me know what you think.

Re: Squad direction

rob4united — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:41:45 GMT

Cleverbeck.:
rob4united:
I like that last part and agree with you on the formation, maybe slightly challenge the idea of the personnel but probably only in defence.
I have an undying love for Evans. Sue me.

I am also a Evans *** and think that he will be one of the best centre backs in the world but if Vidic can come back and Rio can stay injury free then because of their understanding together I would play them all day long as I think they are the best defensive combination ever.

Re: Squad direction

stec10 — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:19:41 GMT

Make your football formation with this11.com This could be tried against weaker teams, or in pre season, and if it works, then it could be deployed against mid strength teams. The front four could interchange also.

Re: Squad direction

Cleverbeck. — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:28:43 GMT

rob4united:
I like that last part and agree with you on the formation, maybe slightly challenge the idea of the personnel but probably only in defence.

I have an undying love for Evans. Sue me.

Re: Squad direction

rob4united — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:52:41 GMT

Cleverbeck.:
No offense to anyone in this thread but its a sad day when this thread is considered long.
What I predict is that we will see a continuation of what United tired to do last year at the start and in other parts
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
Whilst that doesn't look like a traditional formation, its actually the one United used last season.
There will be an interchanging Cleverley Rooney Kagawa Welbeck 4some that will never really play one position for very long, constantly moving. Kagawa will start from the left but won't be a left winger, that will be Baines/Evras job, Kagawa will play beside Rooney but Kagawas movement will be more lateral, whereas Rooney should be looking to move to the penalty box.
On the right, our new number 7 will contrast this by being extremely direct and it will upset teams, having variation on the pitch like that.
I expect he and Rafael to team up and create havoc on that right hand side.
I don't think Fergie will reinvent the wheel, not at his age. Hes just going to make it run smoother.

I like that last part and agree with you on the formation, maybe slightly challenge the idea of the personnel but probably only in defence.

Re: Squad direction

bmantri — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:33:08 GMT

The formation that should be played is 4-1-2-1-2. Smalling @ RB Vidic and Jones @ CB Evra or new signing @ LB Carrick @ CDM Valencia @ right and Young/Nani @ left Rooney @ CAM Kagawa and Welbeck(if not Macheda) as Strikers. Vidic being the best defender will be further be helped by Jones' pace and slides. Smalling seems to be the perfect RB as Rafael is rash. No comments about the LB right now but hope for the best. Carrick with his vision and passes is very sound defensively. He has play as a CB in emergency situations. With Valencia's and Young's pace and tracking back, counter attack can be stopped and pwn attack can be launched. Both being defensively sound. Rooney is the best at this position. Kagawa with more of a supplier. He with Rooney combined, is a dangerous combination. They both score goals and make assists at the same time. Id prefer Macheda but Welbeck is also a great talent. He just needs to score.

Re: Squad direction

Sephiroth Rising — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:24:05 GMT

I'd take out fletcher as he's not coming back.

Re: Squad direction

stretford77 — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:07:12 GMT

Long post but I tend to agree.

Re: Squad direction

Cleverbeck. — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:00:21 GMT

No offense to anyone in this thread but its a sad day when this thread is considered long.

What I predict is that we will see a continuation of what United tired to do last year at the start and in other parts

Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

Whilst that doesn't look like a traditional formation, its actually the one United used last season.

There will be an interchanging Cleverley Rooney Kagawa Welbeck 4some that will never really play one position for very long, constantly moving. Kagawa will start from the left but won't be a left winger, that will be Baines/Evras job, Kagawa will play beside Rooney but Kagawas movement will be more lateral, whereas Rooney should be looking to move to the penalty box.

On the right, our new number 7 will contrast this by being extremely direct and it will upset teams, having variation on the pitch like that.

I expect he and Rafael to team up and create havoc on that right hand side.

I don't think Fergie will reinvent the wheel, not at his age. Hes just going to make it run smoother.

Re: Squad direction

Mr.NiceGuy — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:34:53 GMT

Kagawa wont be playing as a winger mate. Good thread so far haven't read it all yet. I will later today. :)

Re: Squad direction

Red&White — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:58:19 GMT

Long but good thread here mate... I'm afraid of "ifs'' problem, what if they all stay fit and in good form, then some of them will be unsatisfied with their playing time.... I also don't think we need another MF cuz we got Kagawa and Powell and I think Tunnicliffe will have his part this season, and he'll be our back up Joe Allen you wanted to buy...

Squad direction

rob4united — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:37:14 GMT

Hi Guys,

Just for a bit of fun (and apologies if this is in the wrong section) I wanted to put down in one thread the possible squad for next season and what it may look like and what areas it may be lacking. Also, to give a better perspective of where Fergie may be thinking of going with it, I'll list the departures and possible targets etc.

I have excluded some players e.g. Fabio as they are out on loan and added the confirmed transfers:

Keepers - De Gea, Lindegaard and (Amos).

Defenders - (Rafael), Smalling, Evans, Jones, (Ferdinand), (Vidic), and Evra.

Midfielders - (Scholes), (Giggs), (Fletcher), (Anderson), (Cleverley), and Carrick.

Wingers/Attackers - Young, Nani, (Kagawa), Valencia, (Bebe), and (Powell).

Strikers - Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, (Berbatov), and (Macheda).

The already confirmed outgoing transfers e.g. James, DeLaet, Owen, Norwood, Kuszack, Park, Pogba and Fryers haven't left us with a massive hole as many of them weren't regular features last season. It could also be that the likes of Brady, Amos and Macheda all join Fabio out on loan for season to gain experience and it wouldn't surprise me to see Vaseli, Tunniclife, the Keane's, Cole, Lingard, Vermijl, King and Cofie all move on to find regular first team football either on loan or as permenant transfers. Also, going by last seasons squad status it would appear that Berbatov and Bebe are coming to an end of their time at Old Trafford and may very well be sold to help raise additional funds, in my opinion.

A lot, will also depend on how Kagawa and Powell settle; the ability of Fletcher and Vidic to come back; the ability of Giggs and Scholes to keep contributing quality; and the ability Rio, Rafael, Anderson, and Cleverley to enjoy an injury free campaign. If worst case scenario these players don't perform or suffer a reaccurance of last seasons misfortunes then the squad looks very thin and robbed of quality, especially in the centre of midfield with Carrick the only 40 game a season player there and left back with Evra the only player capable of naturally playing there.

Therefore, when Fergie mentioned they were looking at a 1 or 2 players I think that they are more than likely a left back and a centre midfielder. Trouble for Fergie will be what if all the 'ifs' go away and Fletcher comes back, Vidic returns to his normal level, Cleverley establishes himself, Anderson reamins injury free and etc. I'm not going to guess who he will try and sign as that would be impossible but I just wanted to highlight the overall status of the squad. I haven't even tried to guess what players he will definitely promote from the reserves and just guessed that a few will be going out on loan.

But this is what I think will form the majority of the squad for next year. In total there is 27 players there which satisfies the Premier League rules as we have enough home grown players and a few don't have to be registered. I have put in brackets the players that I think there is question marks surrounding for ability to play a season, settle in or to even be here come August 20th. And considering that there is 14 players that this applies to which leaves 13 players who are reliable quality players we may find that at the certain stages of the season we come a little undone.

Nonetheless, I think it's important that we give all these players one more season to prove their creditentials however I feel that Macheda and Amos should go out on loan with Fabio and with whatever other members of the very succesul reserves go out. I also think that Brady and Tunniclife should go out out to get Premier League experience and that Powell should spend half a season here learning the United way and then going out to the Championship for half a season before next year going to a Premier League club. I would probably let Berbatov and Bebe go with our other out goings and use Giggs and Scholes as extra players next season; as I feel one of the main challenges for next season will be learning to cope without them. Hopefully Kagawa hits the ground running and helps us adopt the 4-2-3-1 formation that worked so well for us at the start of last season. As mentioned injuries to Carrick and Evra could leave us particularly waekened and considering both players will be 31 next season suitable back up will probably form the basis of Fergie shopping list.

Considering that, I believe that Baines and Allen would provide quality cover at the right prices. Baines would offer quality back up to Evra and a cushion for Fabio in the coming seasons. Allen would help implement a playing style that help bridge the gap in Europe and help excel in a 4-2-3-1. Although looking at the whole squad it appears that for the first time (from what I can remember) Fergie has started a season without a midfield presser or a player accustomed to building the platforms for more attacking players to win games. It could very well be that Jones is given the role of utility player and midfield destroyer which would help shore up the midfield providing Rio, Vidic, Evans, Smalling and Rafael can between them handle 3 slots of defence. It could very well be that in the 4-2-3-1 that only 2 centre midfielders are needed and Rooney could drop back into one of the attacking 3 thus helping fill that void and allow Welbeck and Hernandez to do battle for the 1 striker slot. The 4-2-3-1 is an attractive formation and the only problem with it is will it allow Valencia, arguably our best player last season, to excel again? 4-4-2 playing as a conventional winger is undeniably his best position but will Fergie continue to build his teams around talisman Rooney or look at a better fit and slot Rooney in where he can? I think what is difficult, for a fan, and maybe Fergie at present, is deciding on his best 11 proves tricky business as we don't appear to have a preffered formation best suited to our players, question marks surrounding lots of players and tactical inconsistencies especially in Europe. A 4-2-3-1 would harness the best out of Rooney, Kagawa, Young and Nani and if Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher and Anderson could operate in the middle 2 then a very good team we could be with players like Welbeck, Hernandez, Scholes and Giggs being able to come in and help out.

It is hoped that by reading this that you get a more comprehensive notion of what the squad looks like and what may be the thinking of the great master as he prepares to wrestle his crown back from the nosiy neighbours. I will say that these are all just my opinions and I may be way off or even a little harsh so your opinions and feed back would be greatly appreciated and welcome.

Finally, I just want to add that by looking overall at our squad we have a fantastic team that looks like it is getting ready mature and it shouldn't be forgotten that last year was always going to be a transition. By looking at the age of our current team it looks like Fergie's next big side is starting to take shape so here's to succesful season! Come on United!