One of the advantages of a thread (particularly this one) is that we can vent our frustration. This does not mean we should do it without respect for others. We lost.... period. Many of you have provided (a posteriori) good reasns for it. May i just add the one....that resumes all of this. We do not have enough quality replacements... at the moment...be it in defence....midfield or forwards. Either by injury or because we need to invest in new players we come out short. Scholes did a tremendous job....truly great.....and worthy of his best moments....unfortuanetely his engine cannot take 90 minutes of midfield rally...we needed a substitute for him in the 2nd half and it showed ....i knew we were in trouble when Liverpool made not one... but two changes....Adams (and Kuit?) it helped Liverpool take our midfield posession away....SAF's inclussion of Chicharito made sense....Park would asume Scholes defensive role and Giggs would take a more attacking role...unfortunately they were depleted....even Valencia and Rafael showed it....and the assurance we needed in defence was just not there (either Vidic or Ferdinand would have been enough)....De Gea had nothing to do with the seccond goal....if you want to blame him for something arguably it could be the first goal....but then again....Vidic would have not allowed Carrol to entice De Gea into running after him instead of the ball... Tto summarize our present predicaments.... this is not our year...and hey...how can we differentiate our truly great seasons form the not so good ones...if we did not have the odd hiccups here and there produced by the changing of the guard...were i live....(South America) we get the games in Spanish with that language speaking commentators...Argentinians, Spaniards and the odd Brazilian...one of the interesting comments they always make (having been footballers themselves) is the respect that the club (our club) has for its members (footballers, coaches, traditions....etc) and that gentlemen... is bether than anything else....for that means that we will resurface again...and that whenever SAF decides to call it a day...another tradition respecting leader will step up and continue our successes and history...another statue will be erected for Sir X who will have achieved additional glory and extraordinary remembrances....so stop the crying and prepare for adventures anew....

89cruefan2:

Mik patel: Im an idiot am i? Coming from the person acting about as mature as a 2 year old flinging abuse at the players, staff and the most sucessful manager ever? How is throwing the toys out the pram and being absolutely disrespectful going to help ANYTHING? Yes mistakes were made, subs could have been better and earlier but it is no reason to act like a petulant child. To me anyone calling for saf to retire just shouts out "I havent been into football that long and i am still rather immature". Like i said try supporting a team who fail to get trophies.. how about Arsenal, big team but have gone 6 years without a trophy... If United went 6 years without one, would you still be a fan? or would you have jumped ship to the next sucessful team?

Ranchero:

What should be said, though? That everything in the garden is lovely. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There's everything wrong with burying heads in the sand, in my opinion

Maybe something respectful and critical? I have NEVER said there is anything wrong with constructive criticisim.. but READ this thread... 99% of the posts ARENT critical... They are written in a manner which make me think of petulant gloryhunting kids throwing toys out the pram... There is no need for certain users to sling abuse at players or the manager.. That is just truely disgusting and a disgrace... TBH its no surprise United have a bad reputation for fans with some of the disrespectful, abusive and clearly childish fans we seem to attract.

Agreed

89cruefan2:

Mik Patel:

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

No but you atleast owe him some respect for what he has achieved... Maybe you need to open your eyes, I have already stated what he had done wrong... But maybe because you are that set on just being plain downright disrespectful then you couldnt see it... Or maybe you didnt notice it because i didnt use abusive and obscene language to try make a point. Sorry maybe in a few points i was over generalising to the masses in this thread instead of being more specific towards you. Yes some decisions have been poor and have left me thinking what?, i still trust and stand by Fergie. In terms of what happend today its one of those things. The subs werent great but what else can you do with all the injuries present and the lack of first team midfielders available on the bench. Subs should have happend earlier but if anything it was the turning off in defence which cost us which is more the players fault then anything Fergie specifically did.

Dont get me wrong.. i still believe in Fergie.. he's still epic.. but the fact is.. we could have won that match.. theres no blaming it on injuries.. we could have.. and should have won that match.. we had the players we needed to win it.. we didnt need any of the injured players.. thats what annoys me.. Its not the defence that cost us the game.. yeah they made errors which lead to their goals.. but for us to have so much possession and attack the Liverpool goal that little.. thats our problem.. i hate how our defence is being blamed for the faliures of our attack..

I thought I knew exactly what I needed to say but u guys seem to have covered it all and then some. I think that as fans our biggest problem is that we have yet to come to terms with the fact that we ain't a superpower anymore

I came home from the match. I am kinda have a lost feeling in my mind now. We were better at keeping possession in this game but again there is something wrong with the team. If it wasn't Rafael enthusiastic run, then I didn't see where the would come. Second half, we barely have a real chance except of Welbeck break behind the defense but failed to converted it. No creativity in midfield. It was not a day for the manager and the coaching staff to try to input confidence into De Gea. He shouldn't have started today. After this, ppl will only point at him more, that makes the situation for him worse. Question mark on this here for the selection. Scholes is the midfield bosss. He did really control the midfield, it is just his age that didn;t allow him to come forward to be the cutting edge of the midfield. I don't understand why sub Scholes out for Hernandez. Scholes might be out of gas, but I think keeping him on being better. I didn;t expect a win seeing the game going into 80th so keep it stalemate instead of trying something stupid. Henandez in ==> Our midfield lost the table, Liverpool put more pressure into our back four and keepers and that is the worst scenario. Evans was a bomb to explode , but he didn't make error today, that is a relief. However, Carrol was stronger in the goal. Carrick looked shaky into the second half ( because he wasn't given any more space like first half, slipped often and made some errors too. Valencia was shut down (he is never good if closely marked) and Liverpool just did that in second half. Evra' position is again the headline in Loserpool's decisive goal. He was completely shaken off by Kyut movement. People may have different point,but my point is unwise selection on De Gea and WE STILL CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT SCHOLES IN THE MIDFIELD ( even though Scholes wasn't at his best, he is no longer can produce goal often).

89cruefan2:

Mik Patel:

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

No but you atleast owe him some respect for what he has achieved... Maybe you need to open your eyes, I have already stated what he had done wrong... But maybe because you are that set on just being plain downright disrespectful then you couldnt see it... Or maybe you didnt notice it because i didnt use abusive and obscene language to try make a point. Sorry maybe in a few points i was over generalising to the masses in this thread instead of being more specific towards you. Yes some decisions have been poor and have left me thinking what?, i still trust and stand by Fergie. In terms of what happend today its one of those things. The subs werent great but what else can you do with all the injuries present and the lack of first team midfielders available on the bench. Subs should have happend earlier but if anything it was the turning off in defence which cost us which is more the players fault then anything Fergie specifically did.

Mate I dont trust Fergie is in his best shape anymore! and there is no running away from that. he made so many incredibly wrong decisions in the recent years, and many stupid signings, and tactically he is easy to predict and beat lately! starting with the Tevez saga, that was a famous mistake of judgement! and Berbatov instead of Tevez was a shocker! and then now that Berbatov has scored 21 goals (for once in his life) he cant get a starting position! He signed a lot of flops like : Obertan, Diouf & Bebe! with too many chances to retarded players such as Gibson & Evans (who is the defensive equivalent of Emile Heskey), and the pathetic inability to replace Giggs or Scholes though they were declining for over 3 years now (due to age which is a very natural thing) & his transfer spending is weird! Ashley young is a very normal player! Nani & Valencia are far better than him! and De Gea is a 3rd tier GK, he is a catastrophe waiting to happen every game, actually u can argue that he single handedly got us out of the CL, and he paid 18 mill for him!!! and 30 mill for Berbatov! and his refusal to admit that his team is weak, and needs a class midfielder was the stubbornness of a life time! its arrogant and stubborn and just plain wrong! btw, we only won the EPL last year, cos everyone else were just too awful to be true, and we were just poor, and apparently with the standards of the EPL today, being poor is good enough to win in a very mediocre league.

89cruefan2:

Mik Patel:

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

No but you atleast owe him some respect for what he has achieved... Maybe you need to open your eyes, I have already stated what he had done wrong... But maybe because you are that set on just being plain downright disrespectful then you couldnt see it... Or maybe you didnt notice it because i didnt use abusive and obscene language to try make a point. Sorry maybe in a few points i was over generalising to the masses in this thread instead of being more specific towards you. Yes some decisions have been poor and have left me thinking what?, i still trust and stand by Fergie. In terms of what happend today its one of those things. The subs werent great but what else can you do with all the injuries present and the lack of first team midfielders available on the bench. Subs should have happend earlier but if anything it was the turning off in defence which cost us which is more the players fault then anything Fergie specifically did.

Mate I dont trust Fergie is in his best shape anymore! and there is no running away from that. he made so many incredibly wrong decisions in the recent years, and many stupid signings, and tactically he is easy to predict and beat lately! starting with the Tevez saga, that was a famous mistake of judgement! and Berbatov instead of Tevez was a shocker! and then now that Berbatov has scored 21 goals (for once in his life) he cant get a starting position! He signed a lot of flops like : Obertan, Diouf & Bebe! with too many chances to retarded players such as Gibson & Evans (who is the defensive equivalent of Emile Heskey), and the pathetic inability to replace Giggs or Scholes though they were declining for over 3 years now (due to age which is a very natural thing) & his transfer spending is weird! Ashley young is a very normal player! Nani & Valencia are far better than him! and De Gea is a 3rd tier GK, he is a catastrophe waiting to happen every game, actually u can argue that he single handedly got us out of the CL, and he paid 18 mill for him!!! and 30 mill for Berbatov! and his refusal to admit that his team is weak, and needs a class midfielder was the stubbornness of a life time! its arrogant and stubborn and just plain wrong! btw, we only won the EPL last year, cos everyone else were just too awful to be true, and we were just poor, and apparently with the standards of the EPL today, being poor is good enough to win in a very mediocre league.

Yes, a lot of possession but didn't do much with it. SAF made a huge error in taking of Scholes as he was bossing the mid-field. As for last season we are not good in the final third. Ashley Young is sorely missed as is Cleverley and Vidic. Out only chance now is the BPL title but only if City slip-up. Not sure we will win anything ths season which is very frustraing as it could have been so different if we hadn't had so many injuries.

dewolf:

The reason why Berbatov should play up front with Welbeck is that when he is given the ball, he holds it up very well. it is almost impossible to the get ball off him most times. he also creates a lot of chances too and I cannot understand why the leagues top scorer is always on the bench and comes on only for the last few seconds.

I felt the same...We played better in the first half just because Liverpool didn't play well with a strange 5-4-1 formation and you could see they didn't feel comfortable with that. We didn't take advantage of it and if the second half when Liverpool reverted back to their comfortable 4-4-2 formation by using two substitutes, they dominated and at that time I thought SAF should replaced Park or Giggs with Berbatov, because we just didn't have someone to keep the ball and link up play they whole day..!!!

Mik Patel:

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

No but you atleast owe him some respect for what he has achieved... Maybe you need to open your eyes, I have already stated what he had done wrong... But maybe because you are that set on just being plain downright disrespectful then you couldnt see it... Or maybe you didnt notice it because i didnt use abusive and obscene language to try make a point. Sorry maybe in a few points i was over generalising to the masses in this thread instead of being more specific towards you. Yes some decisions have been poor and have left me thinking what?, i still trust and stand by Fergie. In terms of what happend today its one of those things. The subs werent great but what else can you do with all the injuries present and the lack of first team midfielders available on the bench. Subs should have happend earlier but if anything it was the turning off in defence which cost us which is more the players fault then anything Fergie specifically did.

Mik Patel:

89cruefan2:

Mik patel: Im an idiot am i? Coming from the person acting about as mature as a 2 year old flinging abuse at the players, staff and the most sucessful manager ever? How is throwing the toys out the pram and being absolutely disrespectful going to help ANYTHING? Yes mistakes were made, subs could have been better and earlier but it is no reason to act like a petulant child. To me anyone calling for saf to retire just shouts out "I havent been into football that long and i am still rather immature". Like i said try supporting a team who fail to get trophies.. how about Arsenal, big team but have gone 6 years without a trophy... If United went 6 years without one, would you still be a fan? or would you have jumped ship to the next sucessful team?

Ranchero:

What should be said, though? That everything in the garden is lovely. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There's everything wrong with burying heads in the sand, in my opinion

Maybe something respectful and critical? I have NEVER said there is anything wrong with constructive criticisim.. but READ this thread... 99% of the posts ARENT critical... They are written in a manner which make me think of petulant gloryhunting kids throwing toys out the pram... There is no need for certain users to sling abuse at players or the manager.. That is just truely disgusting and a disgrace... TBH its no surprise United have a bad reputation for fans with some of the disrespectful, abusive and clearly childish fans we seem to attract.

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

Well said mate!

sengineer:

dewolf:

The reason why Berbatov should play up front with Welbeck is that when he is given the ball, he holds it up very well. it is almost impossible to the get ball off him most times. he also creates a lot of chances too and I cannot understand why the leagues top scorer is always on the bench and comes on only for the last few seconds.

brilliant statement...I have said this all season and Fergie's personal vendetta against berbatov is costing us games...nobody wants to ask him why???...but I wish I was a journalist just so that I can pose that question directly to him...why do you not think Berbatov is a worthy substitute or first choice for games? he is a brilliant playmaker and has proven this over and over..people do not realize how much of an influence he has on games even if he does not score or run back and make tackles...compare his possession to that of giggs and carrick combined...he is brilliant and would have opened up the useless defense of liverpool...even putting berbatov in an attacking midfield position would alter the predictable attack of united...this is frustrating and this is exactly what happened against city...fergie is too damn stubborn

Well most journalists know that if they ask Fergie the "wrong question" then they're either going to get berated in front of everyone or uninvited from Utd. press events. In any case, pretty much any other club would start a player like Berbatov every game. Who wouldn't start a player who has the ability to sit on the bench for months then suddenly score 6 goals in 3 games? Nothing about Berbatov's last appearance before his relegation to the bench again suggests that he shouldn't be starting. Unfortunately, SAF is limiting our attack to the wings with a favored striker (Chicharito last season, Welbeck this season) who runs around and runs around and runs around. Too bad Welbeck (who's a bit like Chicharito with skills off the ball) isn't as prolific as Chicharito was last season or even as prolific as Berbatov has been this season. Welbeck has what....almost as many goals as Berba but has at least double the starts? What SAF has against Berbatov is beyond me. Welbeck is a very good young player who may one day be an outstanding player but he's definitely not ready to be a lone striker, especially not at Liverpool away. Should've been Welbeck and Berba with only one 38 year old player (Scholes) starting. We definitely would have won.

nimizle:

desperad0oo7:

when scholesy went off a little something inside me died. was an obvious glaring mistake for me.

we must be psychic brothers bro as ii had an exact same feeling

we all had the same feeling! the game was just thrown away, when I actually thought we were going for a draw, so that we'd get a better chance at OT with all our players back!

89cruefan2:

Mik patel: Im an idiot am i? Coming from the person acting about as mature as a 2 year old flinging abuse at the players, staff and the most sucessful manager ever? How is throwing the toys out the pram and being absolutely disrespectful going to help ANYTHING? Yes mistakes were made, subs could have been better and earlier but it is no reason to act like a petulant child. To me anyone calling for saf to retire just shouts out "I havent been into football that long and i am still rather immature". Like i said try supporting a team who fail to get trophies.. how about Arsenal, big team but have gone 6 years without a trophy... If United went 6 years without one, would you still be a fan? or would you have jumped ship to the next sucessful team?

Ranchero:

What should be said, though? That everything in the garden is lovely. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There's everything wrong with burying heads in the sand, in my opinion

Maybe something respectful and critical? I have NEVER said there is anything wrong with constructive criticisim.. but READ this thread... 99% of the posts ARENT critical... They are written in a manner which make me think of petulant gloryhunting kids throwing toys out the pram... There is no need for certain users to sling abuse at players or the manager.. That is just truely disgusting and a disgrace... TBH its no surprise United have a bad reputation for fans with some of the disrespectful, abusive and clearly childish fans we seem to attract.

Tbh.. if i was a glory hunter.. i'd have gone by now.. and he may be the most successful manager ever.. im not saying he's not.. but anyone with more than half a brain [unfortunatly that doesnt include you].. could see what he did wrong and what he should have done.. and before you say its easy with the benefit of hindsight.. well i said it at the begining of the match and all the way throughout.. Also.. i havent actually said anything abusive to anyone.. [except you].. I also havent said that he should retire.. even though his desicions in more recent times have been poor..

nimizle:

desperad0oo7:

when scholesy went off a little something inside me died. was an obvious glaring mistake for me.

we must be psychic brothers bro as ii had an exact same feeling

same here