19reds89:

mancrh:

19reds89:

What I have found interesting though is that everyone was saying with the Young transfer last year about him being predominantly a winger but will play off Rooney in the hole etc etc, how many times has this happened this year? I actually can't remember a single time! And here we are again with Hazard, Gaitan and a sack full of other players suited to the wings. Is SAF actually looking to change from his 442 next year??

Not the same thing mate. Young is a supporting striker and a winger, so whether we were to play him behind the front man (which we did with Berba in front), or on the left, we'd still be playing 4411. Gaitan, Hazard, Kagawa and Muniain are best in the roaming role, which is why it looks like we are about to change a formation.

No that's what I'm saying mate, it definitely looks like we are about to change formation next year and would be fresh to see. Our wingers in my eyes are all out and out wingers, ok Nani likes to drift inside but not to the extent of Hazard for example when started on the left. I was trying to get at the point that if our interest in these players are true then it's more than likely we will see more of a 433 next season.

And just going back to Young, I don't like him in the hole, when he played there for England recently he looked uncomfortable and less of a threat. Think we could have better alternatives than him there to be honest if people are looking for a backup to Waz.

Agree, very much looking towards a 433 with a signing like that. I reckon that at the moment we have two types of wingers: Park, Giggs and Valencia are basically more like wide midfielders, while Nani and Young are attackers. If we move to a 433 I can see us selling Park, Giggsy being a back to whichever AM we sign and the front 3 being Rooney, and two of Welbeck, Nani and Young (hearing rumours we might also be after muriel, a young attacker). Would be interesting to see where would Valencia play. True about Young, was a stupid decision by SP.

I'm praying to God that we will finally change our formation and stop defending too deep. What our midfield needs is steel and pace.

mancrh:

19reds89:

What I have found interesting though is that everyone was saying with the Young transfer last year about him being predominantly a winger but will play off Rooney in the hole etc etc, how many times has this happened this year? I actually can't remember a single time! And here we are again with Hazard, Gaitan and a sack full of other players suited to the wings. Is SAF actually looking to change from his 442 next year??

Not the same thing mate. Young is a supporting striker and a winger, so whether we were to play him behind the front man (which we did with Berba in front), or on the left, we'd still be playing 4411. Gaitan, Hazard, Kagawa and Muniain are best in the roaming role, which is why it looks like we are about to change a formation.

No that's what I'm saying mate, it definitely looks like we are about to change formation next year and would be fresh to see. Our wingers in my eyes are all out and out wingers, ok Nani likes to drift inside but not to the extent of Hazard for example when started on the left. I was trying to get at the point that if our interest in these players are true then it's more than likely we will see more of a 433 next season.

And just going back to Young, I don't like him in the hole, when he played there for England recently he looked uncomfortable and less of a threat. Think we could have better alternatives than him there to be honest if people are looking for a backup to Waz.

19reds89:

What I have found interesting though is that everyone was saying with the Young transfer last year about him being predominantly a winger but will play off Rooney in the hole etc etc, how many times has this happened this year? I actually can't remember a single time! And here we are again with Hazard, Gaitan and a sack full of other players suited to the wings. Is SAF actually looking to change from his 442 next year??

Not the same thing mate. Young is a supporting striker and a winger, so whether we were to play him behind the front man (which we did with Berba in front), or on the left, we'd still be playing 4411. Gaitan, Hazard, Kagawa and Muniain are best in the roaming role, which is why it looks like we are about to change a formation.

Brittain 10:

I agree hazard could bring the arrogant cantona esque streak, but why gamble when you can get a true team player and complete player like Martinez? With cr7 and Eric we paid relatively low amounts of money. However hazard would be a huge gamble if you ask me, considering you can get someone more or less guaranteed to be the ideal signing. Martinez's versatility would be a bigger asset than hazard's flair, and in all honesty hazard is a winger, he can play cam but like gaitan is naturally a winger and therefore not what we need.

Bet it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you mate but think we are sharing exactly the same thoughts because yeah I absolutely believe Martinez should be our number one priority and agree that he is a totally complete player, his versatility alone would be an incredible asset to the club, anyone else in attack is just luxury as I said yesterday. I was just trying to weigh up Hazards plus sides as it seems more likely than the supposed Gaitan transfer now. I do agree it's a risk but the kind of move we never make anymore and one that could really pay off imo. If we have the cash and have filled the void in CM and SAF still feels the need to grab another winger / AM then it's got to be this guy or James Rodriguez.

What I have found interesting though is that everyone was saying with the Young transfer last year about him being predominantly a winger but will play off Rooney in the hole etc etc, how many times has this happened this year? I actually can't remember a single time! And here we are again with Hazard, Gaitan and a sack full of other players suited to the wings. Is SAF actually looking to change from his 442 next year??

I agree hazard could bring the arrogant cantona esque streak, but why gamble when you can get a true team player and complete player like Martinez? With cr7 and Eric we paid relatively low amounts of money. However hazard would be a huge gamble if you ask me, considering you can get someone more or less guaranteed to be the ideal signing. Martinez's versatility would be a bigger asset than hazard's flair, and in all honesty hazard is a winger, he can play cam but like gaitan is naturally a winger and therefore not what we need.

Brittain 10:

19reds89:

Brittain 10:

Moyesy:

19reds89:

You're right mate, I can not think of a single player accross the two legs who were "legends in their own mind". Very humble team who knew what a massive occasion it was to play let alone beat Manchester United. A team full of fantastic players managed by a quality coach who all have their feet firmly on the ground. Many of their players, not just the two mentioned, would fit utd's bill perfectly on the attitude side of things.

From that side of it, theres no arguement.

But just for the sake of playing devils advocate... Maybe Muniain and Martinez are an underdog. Maybe they perform better when expectations are lower, when they are expecting to win games. When they are expected to beat the opponant (as United are for 99% of games), how would they fair then?

Maybe Hazard likes being the big fish in a little pond. Hes the superstar for Lille, hes probably the biggest star in France at the minute. How would he like and cope being just another player at United?

Everyone will have an opinion. Chances are all 3 would thrive at United. Though none of us could ever be truely sure.

You're absolutely right, we can merely go by what seems likely, but the truth is anything could happen, it's like messi coming to the pl, it's a very different game from in spain as there's much less time on the ball and many more physical players. Would he really succeed here?

We always have one or maybe two players that are the big fish or lets say fans favourites, real match winners, influences on the team wether it be Ronaldo or most recentely Rooney to the legend that is Cantona. I know we make it very clear no one is bigger than anyone else at Old Trafford but to be fair there always is someone and maybe there is room for a player like Hazard who likes the spotlight, brings a bit of flair and arrogance something many think we have missed since ronnies departrure? So maube he wouldn't be just another player here as you said above, especially if we break our transfer record for the lad.

i have doubts about hazard's temperament and loyalty. I mean he stabs the club tht allowed him to make it as a footballer and says without notice how he WILL leave at the end of the season, I just feel he could well come here and then want the real/barca route, regardless of whether we make a profit, I want someone who wants to be here for more than a decade, that's the aim of these big signings after all, to benefit you for the foreseeable future. I can see martinez and muniain as being much more loyal, we have got an indication into their modesty, I mean martinez said he wasn't worth £30 mil, players never confess to being overvalued, and to see modesty like this can only give a good indication about the player, hence why I feel he'd be ideal for us. Muniain has demonstrated his humbleness too, stating how he's content to stay, insinuating not only he's loyal but he's smart enough to keep his feet on the ground and not do the arrogant hazard approach of just saying who he'd like to join publicly. Because of this I feel both would be brilliant for us.

I have no doubts whatsoever that either Martinez & Muniain are much more suited to us than Hazard in terms of mentality, I just think somebody with he arrogance of Hazard can bring us what we had with CR7 and have missed since he left. Yeah ok we do run the risk of losing them to the likes of Real come 5 years time but we can not go on being their feeder club, we need to make more statements of intent to the footballing world that yes we can buy these 'stars' and yes we can keep them no matter who comes knocking, no matter the price.

WIth the success we could bring the lad and if we stay consistant at the top of Europe, surrounded by similar quality, on the right pay packet etc etc there is no reason why a club our size shouldn't expect to keep hold of these lads for a good 10-15 years and the thought of losing them in the future should definitley not put us off buying them. Look at the talent we have missed out on in the last 5 years that people complain about, lets jus go in all guns blazing and get our man whatever the cost.

19reds89:

Brittain 10:

Moyesy:

19reds89:

You're right mate, I can not think of a single player accross the two legs who were "legends in their own mind". Very humble team who knew what a massive occasion it was to play let alone beat Manchester United. A team full of fantastic players managed by a quality coach who all have their feet firmly on the ground. Many of their players, not just the two mentioned, would fit utd's bill perfectly on the attitude side of things.

From that side of it, theres no arguement.

But just for the sake of playing devils advocate... Maybe Muniain and Martinez are an underdog. Maybe they perform better when expectations are lower, when they are expecting to win games. When they are expected to beat the opponant (as United are for 99% of games), how would they fair then?

Maybe Hazard likes being the big fish in a little pond. Hes the superstar for Lille, hes probably the biggest star in France at the minute. How would he like and cope being just another player at United?

Everyone will have an opinion. Chances are all 3 would thrive at United. Though none of us could ever be truely sure.

You're absolutely right, we can merely go by what seems likely, but the truth is anything could happen, it's like messi coming to the pl, it's a very different game from in spain as there's much less time on the ball and many more physical players. Would he really succeed here?

We always have one or maybe two players that are the big fish or lets say fans favourites, real match winners, influences on the team wether it be Ronaldo or most recentely Rooney to the legend that is Cantona. I know we make it very clear no one is bigger than anyone else at Old Trafford but to be fair there always is someone and maybe there is room for a player like Hazard who likes the spotlight, brings a bit of flair and arrogance something many think we have missed since ronnies departrure? So maube he wouldn't be just another player here as you said above, especially if we break our transfer record for the lad.

i have doubts about hazard's temperament and loyalty. I mean he stabs the club tht allowed him to make it as a footballer and says without notice how he WILL leave at the end of the season, I just feel he could well come here and then want the real/barca route, regardless of whether we make a profit, I want someone who wants to be here for more than a decade, that's the aim of these big signings after all, to benefit you for the foreseeable future. I can see martinez and muniain as being much more loyal, we have got an indication into their modesty, I mean martinez said he wasn't worth £30 mil, players never confess to being overvalued, and to see modesty like this can only give a good indication about the player, hence why I feel he'd be ideal for us. Muniain has demonstrated his humbleness too, stating how he's content to stay, insinuating not only he's loyal but he's smart enough to keep his feet on the ground and not do the arrogant hazard approach of just saying who he'd like to join publicly. Because of this I feel both would be brilliant for us.

Brittain 10:

Moyesy:

19reds89:

You're right mate, I can not think of a single player accross the two legs who were "legends in their own mind". Very humble team who knew what a massive occasion it was to play let alone beat Manchester United. A team full of fantastic players managed by a quality coach who all have their feet firmly on the ground. Many of their players, not just the two mentioned, would fit utd's bill perfectly on the attitude side of things.

From that side of it, theres no arguement.

But just for the sake of playing devils advocate... Maybe Muniain and Martinez are an underdog. Maybe they perform better when expectations are lower, when they are expecting to win games. When they are expected to beat the opponant (as United are for 99% of games), how would they fair then?

Maybe Hazard likes being the big fish in a little pond. Hes the superstar for Lille, hes probably the biggest star in France at the minute. How would he like and cope being just another player at United?

Everyone will have an opinion. Chances are all 3 would thrive at United. Though none of us could ever be truely sure.

You're absolutely right, we can merely go by what seems likely, but the truth is anything could happen, it's like messi coming to the pl, it's a very different game from in spain as there's much less time on the ball and many more physical players. Would he really succeed here?

We always have one or maybe two players that are the big fish or lets say fans favourites, real match winners, influences on the team wether it be Ronaldo or most recentely Rooney to the legend that is Cantona. I know we make it very clear no one is bigger than anyone else at Old Trafford but to be fair there always is someone and maybe there is room for a player like Hazard who likes the spotlight, brings a bit of flair and arrogance something many think we have missed since ronnies departrure? So maube he wouldn't be just another player here as you said above, especially if we break our transfer record for the lad.

Gaitan may be plz buy Martinez

stretford77:

mancrh:

True about Di Maria, between him and Busquets for the DSFA award, diver Spaniard footy association that is. And you're right that him and Gaitan aren't the same players, but hat's not the point mate. They are both attackers, and Gaitan's stats are better than the ones Di Maria had before his Madrid move. As far as Rodriguez go, truly brilliant talent, but he's more like a Ronaldo than a Silva. Take a 433 formation, Silva, Mata and Gaitan would be at their best roaming behind the attacking 3, while Rodriguez would be at his best on the left or right of the striker. So we're left with the other 4 you mentioned, Hazard is a walking problem, Muniain and Goetze are staying at their current club/going to one of the best clubs in their country, so it's between Kagawa and Gaitan. I personally prefer Kagawa of course, but there must be a reason why we're choosing Gaitan who'd cost around the same anyway, left foot? Realistic option? Mentality? Could be a hundred different things I suppose.

Just interested on your thoughts about Eriksen in the sort of Silva type role?

Like the Yank said before me, Eriksen is more like a young Modric than Silva. Suppose he can do the same job if required, but he's naturally not an attacker, plays a bit deeper.

mancrh:

True about Di Maria, between him and Busquets for the DSFA award, diver Spaniard footy association that is. And you're right that him and Gaitan aren't the same players, but hat's not the point mate. They are both attackers, and Gaitan's stats are better than the ones Di Maria had before his Madrid move. As far as Rodriguez go, truly brilliant talent, but he's more like a Ronaldo than a Silva. Take a 433 formation, Silva, Mata and Gaitan would be at their best roaming behind the attacking 3, while Rodriguez would be at his best on the left or right of the striker. So we're left with the other 4 you mentioned, Hazard is a walking problem, Muniain and Goetze are staying at their current club/going to one of the best clubs in their country, so it's between Kagawa and Gaitan. I personally prefer Kagawa of course, but there must be a reason why we're choosing Gaitan who'd cost around the same anyway, left foot? Realistic option? Mentality? Could be a hundred different things I suppose.

Just interested on your thoughts about Eriksen in the sort of Silva type role?

Colonial Red:

mancrh:

Colonial Red:

mancrh:

Colonial Red:

mancrh:

Most important thing for me, if you follow football (and not just check how highly they are rated in FIFA), you'd know that even though Hazard is a truly gifted player he's too much of a trouble maker.

Agreed that and hewould definitely be linked with Madrid after his first year with us. There is no loyalty in that one but if I'm being a cynical yank then I could look at his resale value which could rival that of CR7. Not the United way (more like Arsenal of late) but does make you wonder the direction we are going...

Nay mate, can't see us getting a problem like Hazard just for the resale value (which won't be like Ronaldo's anyway considering we'd need to pay almost 3 times the money we paid for Ronnie). There are others who I'd have loved mind, Goetze and Muniain are my favourites but are far from being realistic, Kagawa is a brilliant player who might have been able to get and then there's Lucas who's a huge talent but no point trying our luck again with someone who's detined to get fat and arrested for drink driving before returning to Brazil as a flop. Kagawa then, but if we're deciding on Gaitan then he has my full support (yesterday Hazard's fanboys were already calling him a 'clown').

Lmao on Lucas comment, sadly it's probably true. Kagawa or Eriksen would be my ideal picks but if we got Gaitan I'd support him although I'd be disapointed. There is something about him as a player that just does nothing for me. I wasn't disappointed losing Ronaldo and getting Valencia because he was a true old fashioned winger and a powerful player but Gaitan is just a tweener and for me combining his price (now being touted as only straight cash without player trades involved) and his lack of end product when I've watched him makes me just wish we spent on Martinez or strootman and called it a day. Just a luxury buy for me and if I wanted a luxury buy I'd go all out and get a Ferrari not a jaguar.

Aye, Eriksen is another one. Would be interested to know what you think about Di Maria mate? Apparently Gaitan's goal and assist per game ratio is better than what Di Maria had in Benfica. Suppose there's also the idea that we wanted a left footed player, Kagawa is right footed and I'm not sure but I think Eriksen is too.

Di Maria is explosive but one of the most frustratingly annoying cheats of my generation! I honestly think he'd be a better Barcelona player the way he rolls around! I get what you're saying but Di Maria is a lot like Robben for me and while they are both horrible light weights I can't deny their talent. If we want a left footed player then I'd have to hope we move for Rodriguez who you actually turned me on to. He has bags of raw potential and could be developed here much like Ronaldo was. If we want a cheaper younger version of Modric then I'd say Eriksen is the answer and Ajax have stated they would seriously consider a good offer. Kagawa would be my choice if we wanted a David Silva type player with Gaitan a distant 5th after Kagawa, Goetze, Hazard and Muniain.

True about Di Maria, between him and Busquets for the DSFA award, diver Spaniard footy association that is. And you're right that him and Gaitan aren't the same players, but hat's not the point mate. They are both attackers, and Gaitan's stats are better than the ones Di Maria had before his Madrid move. As far as Rodriguez go, truly brilliant talent, but he's more like a Ronaldo than a Silva. Take a 433 formation, Silva, Mata and Gaitan would be at their best roaming behind the attacking 3, while Rodriguez would be at his best on the left or right of the striker. So we're left with the other 4 you mentioned, Hazard is a walking problem, Muniain and Goetze are staying at their current club/going to one of the best clubs in their country, so it's between Kagawa and Gaitan. I personally prefer Kagawa of course, but there must be a reason why we're choosing Gaitan who'd cost around the same anyway, left foot? Realistic option? Mentality? Could be a hundred different things I suppose.

Moyesy:

19reds89:

You're right mate, I can not think of a single player accross the two legs who were "legends in their own mind". Very humble team who knew what a massive occasion it was to play let alone beat Manchester United. A team full of fantastic players managed by a quality coach who all have their feet firmly on the ground. Many of their players, not just the two mentioned, would fit utd's bill perfectly on the attitude side of things.

From that side of it, theres no arguement.

But just for the sake of playing devils advocate... Maybe Muniain and Martinez are an underdog. Maybe they perform better when expectations are lower, when they are expecting to win games. When they are expected to beat the opponant (as United are for 99% of games), how would they fair then?

Maybe Hazard likes being the big fish in a little pond. Hes the superstar for Lille, hes probably the biggest star in France at the minute. How would he like and cope being just another player at United?

Everyone will have an opinion. Chances are all 3 would thrive at United. Though none of us could ever be truely sure.

You're absolutely right, we can merely go by what seems likely, but the truth is anything could happen, it's like messi coming to the pl, it's a very different game from in spain as there's much less time on the ball and many more physical players. Would he really succeed here?

Indeed. There are plenty of fish in the sea after all, I just feel these two are the best examples of those with the ability and mentality for us, the trouble is the best always comes at a price!