I think the comment is not fair. Giggs is a bit part player this season, and so far he has done well when he comes on, no one regards him anymore as a starting player, so the argument is not right. Scholes has been the best centre midfielder not just of our team but the whole league since he came back. The stats and performances show that he is not playing just based on his past glories and accomplishments, but that he still controls the game like no other. In the games he played badly like the last one, its because he was made to defend and win the ball instead on keeping the ball. Yes, he is 37 and doesnt have the legs to defend anymore, but hey defending and keeping pressure wasnt his best attribute even when he was 27!!! That was keano's job. Scholes is like sheringham in that they didnt have legs even when they was 18!! I think if u take the last 5 games performances, it's rooney that has disappoint even though he got goals. He gave away lots of cheap possession, and was trying too hard to make things click. Evra has been a big underperformer this seaon. it's pretty unfair to blame rafael for attacking more than defending but evra has been doing it for years!!! Welbeck is ok, but i hate that he tries only to score for himself even though there are better options, and he drops his game when he eventually scores. Its like he just give up after getting his name on the scoresheet! Park has to leave, carrick is ordinary at best and would you rely on him to win you games? BUT its Rio that really needs to leave so that players like smalling and jones can step up into that centre back position. So many times De Gea has been let down by our centre backs since jan, and most of the times its rio. He shld just retire and be a full time celeb twitte. Look at City's attacking four. Had we attacked instead of sitting back, we may have won. tevez silva nasri and aguero are not the most hardworking players at tracking back, remember the 3-2 victory? Scholes still have alot to offer if he stays injury free and manages the number of games well. We need a top midfielder, and finisher like RVN. If we want a destroyer then lets get a genuine one instead of asking park to do it. He is physically not up to standard and often gets knock off the ball. Time to rebuild FAST, or we could end up like liverpool of the 80s.

I agree with you on Giggs, he as well as Park, Fletcher, and Anderson should simply go. But I think Scholes can still play on for one more season.

bismark:

There is no one who could play the role of Paul scholes as a defensive midfielder. His initial retirement caused us a lot and he being aware have to return to take that position . In my point of view Ando is a good replacement but he is been tormented with injury problems. Also Tom Cleverly is attacking minded and can replace Carrick. Pogba can be given a free role with all his skilful abilities. Please Sir we want new signings by the begining of next season. We give you all the support back here.

Ok first off, Paul Scholes is an attacking midfielder, it is Carrick who is our defensive midfilder --- so cleverly replacing him as our attacking mid doesn't make sense. Secondly, I don't understand why all of you complain about Carrick. He has been our most consistent player throughout the entire year. There is a reason why Sir Alex starts him all the time. You guys are fans, look at his distributions he has during the game; look at his help with defense; watch him point out to even SCHOLES where the ball needs to go. He is the one that runs the team, and if you don't believe or understand that, watch the game more carefully. And with the game going through him he still has a 90% pass success rate --- i don't care if you pass the ball side to side, back to defenders, or through balls to forwards --- 90% is freaking amazing for the amount of times he touches the ball. Thirdly, there is a reason why we had to bring Scholes back, guys. Cleverly AND Anderson got hurt and we had NOBODY to play in the midfield, that's why he came back. And guess what? We were dominating games with him back in the line up --- so because we have dropped couple of games, you want to bash the players that got us where we are? Give me a break. Scholes is a legend. Yes, we need to get younger and HOPEFULLY Cleverly can come back fit, but there is no reason to bash Scholesy and Giggsy. As someone already stated, this is their job and they want to play too --- however, sometimes those legs don't turn as fast as they used to --- but they still have some in the tank. I'm not saying they should be in the started 11 every week, but they can give us a good game or two here and there. What we really need is a new RB or LB. I love Patrice, but his defensive presence has been non-existent, and many of the goals we have been giving up is due to his lack of defensive pressure, or defense in general. Sir Alex might need to strip him of the armband, because he certainly is not leading by example.

Whether he admits it or not, I'm pretty sure SAF knows this squad isn't very good. Sure, we've don well to be near the top of the league, but that's as a result of us being knocked out of every other competition.

If Scholes and Giggs are our main midfield player next season, as brilliant as he is, I assure we'll find ourselves in a similar position.

- Matt:

I understand where this thread is coming from, but some of you miss the fact that both Scholes and Giggs are only players. When they're on the pitch, they do their best. Age is slowly catching up on them (especially Giggs this season), but if there is one responsible for "them holding us back", it's SAF who refuses to move forward, or the Glazers who do not provide the funds to buy suitable replacements. No matter how you look at it, Scholes and Giggs are just players trying to do their job.

I agree with you there, Matt. As much as I admire these two great players, I think it's time for them to retire as I can't see us making new signings if they are still playing!!!

I understand where this thread is coming from, but some of you miss the fact that both Scholes and Giggs are only players. When they're on the pitch, they do their best. Age is slowly catching up on them (especially Giggs this season), but if there is one responsible for "them holding us back", it's SAF who refuses to move forward, or the Glazers who do not provide the funds to buy suitable replacements. No matter how you look at it, Scholes and Giggs are just players trying to do their job.

I HAD THINKS SIR SCHOLESY IS HOLDING UNITED BACK BUT THE FORM OF GIGGSY IS QUESTIONABLE

There is no one who could play the role of Paul scholes as a defensive midfielder. His initial retirement caused us a lot and he being aware have to return to take that position . In my point of view Ando is a good replacement but he is been tormented with injury problems. Also Tom Cleverly is attacking minded and can replace Carrick. Pogba can be given a free role with all his skilful abilities. Please Sir we want new signings by the begining of next season. We give you all the support back here.

I'd agree that SAF has used this a part of his excuse for not bringing in a top midfielder but at this point I think we would all agree that just a decent mid who can stay fit would do at this point. Eitherway the excuse of not being able to find another Scholes is not an excuse for not doing anything with that position because I'll bet anyone there is at very least 50 midfielders out there that are heads and shoulders above Jones and they won't beak the bank to get. Where is/was Cleverley? If these players are not going to play then why are they here? In my book we need to sell our release Anderson, Park, and Carrick. Giggs needs to retire, and Cleverley maybe give him the first half odd next season to prove he can stay fit and play consistently if not out he goes as well. Scholes I'd give one more season but we must bring in at very least 2 quality mids this summer.

It's not Scholes and Giggs that are holding us back per se..... They just wanna play.... You can't blame them for that :) It's SAF holding us back by not replacing them......

I read someone in this thread saying that we are holding on to our vets so that we can bring up new and young players through our academy.... And that's just B.u.l.l.s.h.i.t..... Our vets are getting too old and we have still not brought up any youngsters that could replace them..... We do have youth that could play in the starting eleven soon, but if we were to rely on our academy, then we should've replaced our vets with youth years ago ! And do you really think we will become the best team in the world by just using our own products ? I don't think so....

We need an overhaul of the team and that won't happen with our own youth only, especially since we haven't brought up many successful players through the years.... Except if you go back to the early nineties....

89cruefan2:

Brittain 10:

FFS! Scholes has been one of the main reasons we're even n the position we're in now. You reckon the stat saying how many consecutive games we'd won when he started was a fluke? Absolutely not, he's been the string puller in our midfield and Niall Quinn summed it up in anutshell, he's had the best 2nd half of the season. Giggs' role is becoming more and more part time, but it's still wonderful to see him in full flow.

This

What held us back yesterday was negative tactics, negative formation, benching good players and playing for a draw

What has held us back this season in general is injuries, poor tactics in Europe, poor defence in Europe.

Yeah, so what happens next season, when Giggs and Scholes stay on for another year, meaning we wont sign a midfielder again this summer, and those two players are *** by christmas? In a way the op is right, they are holding us back at the moment, and we will carry on depending on them like milan did with Seedorf, Nesta, Zambrotta, Ronaldinho, Inzaghi, Gattuso etc etc 2-4 years ago! Remember, Scholes was *** last season.

Brittain 10:

FFS! Scholes has been one of the main reasons we're even n the position we're in now. You reckon the stat saying how many consecutive games we'd won when he started was a fluke? Absolutely not, he's been the string puller in our midfield and Niall Quinn summed it up in anutshell, he's had the best 2nd half of the season. Giggs' role is becoming more and more part time, but it's still wonderful to see him in full flow.

No I fully agree with you, the introduction of Scholes back in the side has brought about a much needed lift to the side, and he is rightfully the most likely candidate for the phantom award of best player of the second half of the season. But where it is a stroke of genius bringing him back, its also a sign of weakness in the squad as a whole. Could you ever imagine Real Madrid re signing Raul for instance? Who himself was still a fantastic player when he left the club. No, because what Madrid did as a top side is sign replacements and started building for the future without leaving a voided area in the team between their ex stars stepping down and the next generation not quite being ready to carry on their fight for success in all competitions. What we have done is left an empty space in the team, with no answer, but to recall one of our ex players to fill it in order to compete. Scholes' position should have been addressed last summer and it wasn't, so where we do have young lads coming through, they were never going to be ready, even though we knew Scholes had plans to hang up his boots. There is always the fear that a similar scenario may arrise next season, where by we tie Scholes to another years contract but fail to recognise that he's not going to last forever, but feel its ok to stick with what we have for whatever reason. At the end of the day we still saw an 8pt gap slip to 0pts with Scholes and Giggs in the side

Brittain 10:

FFS! Scholes has been one of the main reasons we're even n the position we're in now. You reckon the stat saying how many consecutive games we'd won when he started was a fluke? Absolutely not, he's been the string puller in our midfield and Niall Quinn summed it up in anutshell, he's had the best 2nd half of the season. Giggs' role is becoming more and more part time, but it's still wonderful to see him in full flow.

This

What held us back yesterday was negative tactics, negative formation, benching good players and playing for a draw

What has held us back this season in general is injuries, poor tactics in Europe, poor defence in Europe.

FtD:

lack of cconfidence to his younger players

At times this season I have to say I have more than agreed with the above statement and I am unsure as to what has made him feel this way.

In the past he has thrown them into the mix regardless of the situation in terms of rivals etc. Yet in games this year where you would think it's a dead cert he would field his youth i.e. Carling Cup and the Europa ties, and he has chosen instead to put out "players in need of games2 and then A) we do not get to see the younger lads when given an opportunity in the 1st team and B) these players do not get any further games so a pretty pointless exercise / excuse i.e. Berbatov vs Palace.

I've seen the youth on many occasions and have been excited by some of the prospects but truth be told if they aren't being trusted in games vs weaker opposition like the Palace game, are they going to hang around waiting for chances that don't exist??

Little bit worrying if you ask me. Not even to mention Pogba.

I think Scholes might still have a role to play against run of the mill teams or in short stints. But United's vision has never been merely to beat run of the mill teams! He is totally out of place against the top teams - look how easily he was brushed aside by YaYa yesterday. And Giggs is just past it ... period! Surely we have youngsters on our staff who can make better contributions now, or who it is worth risking for the potential they offer?! It must be obvious to even the most die-hard Scholes/Giggs fans (not to mention Parks) that they are just retarding our club's progress right now. If the gaffer can't see that, then he needs replacing too!