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  • 13 Jan 2014 4:10 PM
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 12 Aug 2013
    • Posts 66

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    Also, the average fan puts way to much weight on the manager for this type of decision, showing a general ignorance of how companies operate. Moyes job is to give a list of players he wants to the board and explain his priorities. I assume he gets to veto anything brought in by say the scouting network or commercial opportunities (like signing Bale/Ronaldo etc).

    I'm not sure from the outside we can decide how to apportion the blame, but I worked as a journalist for many years and I understand the game very well. From the pieces you can see were clearly briefed by Moyes off the record, all summer long he said he wanted to buy two center midfielders to address the weakness, and a left back. From the pieces briefed by the board/execs, it's clear they were 100% focused on bringing in a Galactico to appease the sponsors - Ronadlo, Bale or Fabregas.

    Lastly, the point that Fergie is a better manager is so banal. Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time, so I mean...duh. I just think we would have struggled more last season if RVP, Rooney and Carrick had have missed as many games as they have this season. And in retrospect, I almost wish they had have. It might have focussed the board's mind more for transfer business last summer, and we may have avoided this crisis and had more success in the long run.

    PS we did play a pressing game at times, especially when the formation was changed for Champions league. And we tended to try and win the ball back higher up the pitch to keep periods of sustained pressure in the last 20-30 minutes when chasing a goal. I don't see much evidence of that from Moyes yet.

    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 4:02 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    Fair point, BUT even though he knew United needed strengthening in Central Midfield (no speculation required), he did a very poor job rectifying the situation. He targeted players that didn't want to come to United, passed over other quality players, that everyone but he thinks is quality (Thiago for example) and only after haggling and hemming and hawing, did we end up with.....felaini. You have to admit that was a very poor summer transfer window. Had he brought in a quality playmaking CM, a quality box to box CM and a quality defensive CM, we would be in much better shape. I honestly think other managers would have been able to accomplish this.
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 3:32 PM

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  • 13 Jan 2014 3:18 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    I think the Question posed is irrelevant, because if there were another manager, we wouldn't have this same squad. Another manager would have brought in some higher quallity players and hence would not have to win with this squad. Part of the problem with Moyes is that he DIDN'T bring in higher quality players over the summer.
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 2:27 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    irish red10:
    theatre:
    vadersmyfather:
    Nibor1:
    To answer the OP's question...SAF didn't seem to have too much trouble with this squad.
    SAF is unquestionably a superior manager that also new his players better, but he also had RvP and Rooney fit for the entirety of last season.
    I think RVP's goals, Carrick having probably his best season for us, Scholes returning, are all big misses this year, combined with the Fergie factor. So in that sense, tough for Moyes to match Fergie's efforts with the same squad, but on the other hand he could still do more to get the best out of the current squad in terms of team selections and formations imo.
    I agree I've mentioned it already on the forum take RVP and Rooney out of the team last year and where would we have ended up...
    Take RVP out and we'd have been in trouble, but it's not like Rooney was playing great, in fact it was one of his worst seasons for us in awhile and he was overweight and unfit. This season Rooney has been playing his socks off and RVP has still made 12 appearances of which he's scored in 8 and also made 2 assists. So really all we've done is swapped around the performances of our two star players; it's untrue that Rooney has been out all season as some people would have you believe and Welbeck is also scoring a lot more too.
    xEDIT YOUR THREAD TITLE TO STOP THE TROLLx
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 2:23 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    theatre:
    vadersmyfather:
    Nibor1:
    To answer the OP's question...SAF didn't seem to have too much trouble with this squad.
    SAF is unquestionably a superior manager that also new his players better, but he also had RvP and Rooney fit for the entirety of last season.
    I think RVP's goals, Carrick having probably his best season for us, Scholes returning, are all big misses this year, combined with the Fergie factor. So in that sense, tough for Moyes to match Fergie's efforts with the same squad, but on the other hand he could still do more to get the best out of the current squad in terms of team selections and formations imo.
    I agree I've mentioned it already on the forum take RVP and Rooney out of the team last year and where would we have ended up...
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 2:10 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    Could anyone win with this squad? Yes.... SAF did last season, and SAF didn't have Januzaj, Fellaini or Fletcher.
    xEDIT YOUR THREAD TITLE TO STOP THE TROLLx
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 1:05 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    vadersmyfather:
    Nibor1:
    To answer the OP's question...SAF didn't seem to have too much trouble with this squad.
    SAF is unquestionably a superior manager that also new his players better, but he also had RvP and Rooney fit for the entirety of last season.
    I think RVP's goals, Carrick having probably his best season for us, Scholes returning, are all big misses this year, combined with the Fergie factor. So in that sense, tough for Moyes to match Fergie's efforts with the same squad, but on the other hand he could still do more to get the best out of the current squad in terms of team selections and formations imo.
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 1:00 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    Nibor1:
    To answer the OP's question...SAF didn't seem to have too much trouble with this squad.
    SAF is unquestionably a superior manager that also new his players better, but he also had RvP and Rooney fit for the entirety of last season.
    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 12:57 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    grd85:
    I don't really like David Moyes. I think he favours dull and reactionary football. We don't press teams high enough up the pitch, and don't seem to start playing until things get desperate. He doesn't seem to know how to play on the front foot - how to be the "overdog" if you will.

    That being said I think we should support him for one simple reason. I don't think there are any managers that could get our current squad playing championship winning football without Rooney and RVP. Maybe Ferguson could. Maybe even Mourinho could. But neither are an option.

    You could make a case to not spend money in January, and then try to bring in someone like a Klopp but it's a bit of a long shot. And in the mean time, I think the fans should stick by Moyes as there's no viable alternative.

    Anyone agree/disagree?

    I like your phrase 'overdog' made me smile!

    My big problem with Moyes is I believe that he could have the pick of the best players in world football and still play the same way.

    To answer the OP's question...SAF didn't seem to have too much trouble with this squad.

    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 12:24 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    To blame the squad is just pathetic....

    I'm not saying we should win the league with this, but that's not what the hate is about !

    Nobody is demanding him to win the league with this squad, but you surely can't suggest our squad is worse than mid/low-table teams ? I hope....

    Losing points against Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Liverpool.... That's okay (Losing every match against them is not good...) BUT, to lose this many points against much weaker teams, like we've done... That's under-performing and our squad is strong enough to win all those matches.

    As I see it, it doesn't matter if our squad isn't strong enough, Moyes has still done a bad job relative to our squads potential.

    Letting him buy players is not going to make him better.... our performances will be better, but his skill relative to our squad's potential will be the same.

    utd for life:
    I agree with what you said about no manager being able to win with the squad we have and without Rooney and RVP, but not about moyes not playing a pressing game, at Everton he played a good pressing game and caused teams trouble but didn't have that prolific goalscorer like lukaku. Barkley has replaced Fellaini and that's why they are playing slightly better now, if we hadn't bought Fellaini, Fellaini would still be starting and Everton would be similar to last year.

    I think it's our players, we have never played a pressing game (for a few years anyway) and the players don't understand it and fall back to what they know, fletcher said it himself after the Swansea game, he wanted to press but the positioning of the players were wrong so had to let them come at them, one man can't press from deep or he will leave a space behind, the whole team needs to press for it to work. Carrick, cleverly etc don't want to the just want to sit back and let teams come at us.

    You're basically describing a fault of Moyes....

    You can't just blame the players for not being able to defend a certain way.... That's one of Moyes responsibilities.

    IF it's the case, that Moyes have tried to implement more pressing in our defensive play, and the players aren't handling it very well... Then he has to change his tactics to work for this squad. It worked much better for SAF, so why can't Moyes find a way ?

    Reply
  • 13 Jan 2014 12:06 PM

    Re: Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    I agree with what you said about no manager being able to win with the squad we have and without Rooney and RVP, but not about moyes not playing a pressing game, at Everton he played a good pressing game and caused teams trouble but didn't have that prolific goalscorer like lukaku. Barkley has replaced Fellaini and that's why they are playing slightly better now, if we hadn't bought Fellaini, Fellaini would still be starting and Everton would be similar to last year.

    I think it's our players, we have never played a pressing game (for a few years anyway) and the players don't understand it and fall back to what they know, fletcher said it himself after the Swansea game, he wanted to press but the positioning of the players were wrong so had to let them come at them, one man can't press from deep or he will leave a space behind, the whole team needs to press for it to work. Carrick, cleverly etc don't want to the just want to sit back and let teams come at us.

    Reply
  • 12 Jan 2014 6:19 PM
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 12 Aug 2013
    • Posts 66

    Could anyone win with this squad? - Why we should support Moyes

    I don't really like David Moyes. I think he favours dull and reactionary football. We don't press teams high enough up the pitch, and don't seem to start playing until things get desperate. He doesn't seem to know how to play on the front foot - how to be the "overdog" if you will.

    That being said I think we should support him for one simple reason. I don't think there are any managers that could get our current squad playing championship winning football without Rooney and RVP. Maybe Ferguson could. Maybe even Mourinho could. But neither are an option.

    You could make a case to not spend money in January, and then try to bring in someone like a Klopp but it's a bit of a long shot. And in the mean time, I think the fans should stick by Moyes as there's no viable alternative.

    Anyone agree/disagree?

    Reply
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